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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3046986" data-attributes="member: 141">Excellent Magic and Spiritburner have great synergy, don't they?  I like them, but it makes me think there are potential problems with syneresis: it's too weak unless you burn lots of slots, and then it is too strong.  I'm starting to worry about a system that tempts DMs to make kamikaze NPCs that burn all their resources in one encounter.  Or a system that gives a min-maxing player the ability to fight *way* above their weight every once in a while.  It makes things unstable.You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that there needs to be a limit to how much an epic spell can be mitigated.  With massive cabals of ritual spellcasters, month long casting times, incredible donations of xp and oodles of feats there is nothing preventing moderately epic characters (30-something) from getting access to magic that is way, way above them.  It's an element of instability in the game that just doesn't add to the fun of it.To bring the design space into a manageable shape I think we should say that mitigating factors can't reduce a spell by more than half.  So a 21st level caster just can't research a spell with a USP of 49.  A 40th level caster finds a USP 87 spell tantalizingly beyond his reach, and so on.  I think this gives players (and DMs) lots of room to play around in.  If you are looking at a 37th level character you can ignore spells that have a USP above 80, and thus focus your attention on other spells with a more realistic power level.It will increase variety among epic casters.  Different epic casters will use different methods of mitigating things.  But nobody will try to include every known method of mitigation (ritual casting plus long casting times plus xp burn plus power components plus dark subsumption plus...), because after a while there's no benefit.****I have an ulterior motive for this.  I want to consider using factors that scale geometrically, but I want access to them to be gradual.  As characters get higher level they should be able to move beyond tactical scale spells and on to magic that affects whole battlefields.  But widening a fireball to a blast radius of 2000 ft. is beyond the scope of these rules at any reasonable level of difficulty- the verdigris tsunami problem.  Or teleporting cities, or putting a country in stasis; things like that.  While I doubt that 40th level characters should be teleporting cities, this might be an option for a 100th level character.The key factors aredouble the duration (as if extended): +2 USPdouble the range (as if enlarged): +2 USPdouble the volume (as if widened): +6 USPSix doublings (+12 USP) turns a duration in minutes to a duration in hours.  This kind of jump is not unprecedented among the PHB spells.  It would break the spells/day mechanic if they are further extended to days or weeks; I propose a fix below.Doubling the range is intended to make close range spells into long range spells (after 4 doublings).  I'd allow applications of this factor to make a wall (or other shapable spell) longer; a second set could make it thicker, a third would make it higher.  Which works out to be the same as widening it.  For cones and emanations and spheres and such you have to use widen.  Repeated iterations of widen allow one to tackle verdigris tsunami types of spells.  I won't detail that spell, but a 50-fold increase in radius can be costed at +34 USP.  A 100-fold increase in radius is a nice +40 USP.  (Each +2 USP multiplies by 1.26, since three such muliplications doubles the original quantity.)If you want to be brave, factors that double the number of targets is +8 USP.  Doubling the damage (sorta a double empowered) is also +8 USP.  So that's a 160d6 fireball for a total USP of 42.  You can see how this will get out of hand pretty quick.  But that it is also a nice mechanic for making a hellball or vengeful gaze of god that's actually worth casting.I'm still thinking of how such things should be kept under control.  What I'm leaning toward right now is to say that mitigating factors (including the 50% rule) are applied prior to adding geometrical factors.  This would mean that the 160d6 fireball can't be mitigated significantly.  They can add in -5 to reduce the base seed, but the +32 can't be touched.  The spell has a minimum SP of 37, and so you need a 34th level caster.  A 26th level caster can manage an 80d6 fireball, though.  280 hp fire damage seems pretty epic.  Critters have a lot of hit points and resistances at that level, so I don't think it is too much.  It might break down after a few more doublings.  But I don't know anything about play for 50th level characters.A character doesn't have to use geometrical rules, of course.  There are probably cases where a better effect can be made by using the regular factors and then mitigating them down.  For really big effects you'd want to geometrical progressions.As a special patch for greatly extended spells, perhaps an epic spell slot doesn't recharge until the extended spell expires.  Effectively they are embedding an epic spell slot for the spell's duration.Anyway, that's what I'm thinking of.</blockquote>

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