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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3056020" data-attributes="member: 141"><p>I like the -1/level approach to xp mitigation. It does fit <em>wish</em> quite nicely. And people shouldn't be blowing more than 1/4 of an experience level on one spell anyway. My earlier guesstimates failed to account for the fact that epic spells would be used more than once a level.</p><p></p><p>Wealth increases so fast with level, though, that a hard cap of 50,000 gp seems kinda low. I mean, it's less than 5% than what a 36th level character earns getting to 37th level. At that level they should be seriously considering spending five or ten times that amount for a significant magic effect. How about taking a page out of costing magic items, and make it bonus squared x 1000? Perhaps to a maximum of 1 per 2 levels. 100 000 gp for a -10 mitigating factor at 21st level. 400 000 for a -20 at 40th level. It's a reasonable way to get a -5 or something, but awfully hard to abuse.</p><p></p><p>And I am not at all sure that <em>wish</em> should be the model spell for determining the <em>life</em> seed. Or any seed, for that matter. It has too many 9th level equivalent effects that are independent of its ability to replicate effects. (The undo misfortune function, or the transport travelers function, or the +1 inherent ability bonus.) I think it would make more sense to use <em>limited wish</em> as the basis for arcane/divine conversions instead.</p><p></p><p>The entire function of <em>limited wish</em> seems to be to replicate other spells (including interpolations and extrapolations of existing spells). The only non-duplication function that is mentioned in its description is the ability to undo harmful effects spell. But even there it seems to be duplicating a <em>break enchantment</em> or a <em>restoration</em> or something. Significantly, it can be used to duplicate <em>raise dead</em> at a fairly insignificant cost: 300 xp is only 2.3% of the xp needed to advance to 14th level.</p><p></p><p><em>Raise dead</em> in contrast is a pretty expensive spell. At 9th level the 5000 gp component cost is 38% of the wealth expected to be earned leveling up to 10th level. <em>Resurrection</em> and <em>true resurrection</em>, in contrast, both cost only 25% of one's level-up wealth. At a conversion rate of 16 gp per xp point, I could see a cash-starved sorcerer accepting commissions to <em>raise</em> the dead, pocketing the 5,000 gp normally used to purchase diamond dust. That's a better rate than you get making magic items, (even if you sell them at full market price) and you don't need an item creation feat to do it.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, it is interesting that <em>limited wish</em> can duplicate a <em>raise dead</em> for only 300 xp. If you scaled <em>limited wish</em> up two levels, but didn't add any of the extra functions that <em>wish</em> has, you'd expect it to be able to duplicate a <em>resurrection</em> for maybe 500 xp.</p><p></p><p>In other words, an arcane <em>life</em> seed is arguably USP 24. Or 22 with a 500 xp component per target. Or something like that; I could even see an argument for 24 with a 250 xp per target. Why don't you fold <em>awaken</em> and <em>life</em> into the same seed?</p><p></p><p>I imagine an <em>awakened</em> construct can do anything an <em>awakened</em> tree can. After all, an <em>awakened</em> tree is defined as a construct (with the plant type) with an intelligence score. I think the plant type overrides the construct type, but I'm not sure of that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are very gracious, and I am honored.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 3056020, member: 141"] I like the -1/level approach to xp mitigation. It does fit [i]wish[/i] quite nicely. And people shouldn't be blowing more than 1/4 of an experience level on one spell anyway. My earlier guesstimates failed to account for the fact that epic spells would be used more than once a level. Wealth increases so fast with level, though, that a hard cap of 50,000 gp seems kinda low. I mean, it's less than 5% than what a 36th level character earns getting to 37th level. At that level they should be seriously considering spending five or ten times that amount for a significant magic effect. How about taking a page out of costing magic items, and make it bonus squared x 1000? Perhaps to a maximum of 1 per 2 levels. 100 000 gp for a -10 mitigating factor at 21st level. 400 000 for a -20 at 40th level. It's a reasonable way to get a -5 or something, but awfully hard to abuse. And I am not at all sure that [i]wish[/i] should be the model spell for determining the [i]life[/i] seed. Or any seed, for that matter. It has too many 9th level equivalent effects that are independent of its ability to replicate effects. (The undo misfortune function, or the transport travelers function, or the +1 inherent ability bonus.) I think it would make more sense to use [i]limited wish[/i] as the basis for arcane/divine conversions instead. The entire function of [i]limited wish[/i] seems to be to replicate other spells (including interpolations and extrapolations of existing spells). The only non-duplication function that is mentioned in its description is the ability to undo harmful effects spell. But even there it seems to be duplicating a [i]break enchantment[/i] or a [i]restoration[/i] or something. Significantly, it can be used to duplicate [i]raise dead[/i] at a fairly insignificant cost: 300 xp is only 2.3% of the xp needed to advance to 14th level. [i]Raise dead[/i] in contrast is a pretty expensive spell. At 9th level the 5000 gp component cost is 38% of the wealth expected to be earned leveling up to 10th level. [i]Resurrection[/i] and [i]true resurrection[/i], in contrast, both cost only 25% of one's level-up wealth. At a conversion rate of 16 gp per xp point, I could see a cash-starved sorcerer accepting commissions to [i]raise[/i] the dead, pocketing the 5,000 gp normally used to purchase diamond dust. That's a better rate than you get making magic items, (even if you sell them at full market price) and you don't need an item creation feat to do it. Anyway, it is interesting that [i]limited wish[/i] can duplicate a [i]raise dead[/i] for only 300 xp. If you scaled [i]limited wish[/i] up two levels, but didn't add any of the extra functions that [i]wish[/i] has, you'd expect it to be able to duplicate a [i]resurrection[/i] for maybe 500 xp. In other words, an arcane [i]life[/i] seed is arguably USP 24. Or 22 with a 500 xp component per target. Or something like that; I could even see an argument for 24 with a 250 xp per target. Why don't you fold [i]awaken[/i] and [i]life[/i] into the same seed? I imagine an [i]awakened[/i] construct can do anything an [i]awakened[/i] tree can. After all, an [i]awakened[/i] tree is defined as a construct (with the plant type) with an intelligence score. I think the plant type overrides the construct type, but I'm not sure of that. You are very gracious, and I am honored. [/QUOTE]
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