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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3058961" data-attributes="member: 141">I'm not sure that epic casters would be using these spells; as you mentioned previously, saving throws of epic opponents outstrip the save DCs.&nbsp; And so these spells aren't doing 368d6 damage, but 5d6.&nbsp; Which is much less cool.This seems to be a more significant issue to address than whether the max damage at USP 42 is 368d6 or 276d6.&nbsp; Creatures who will fail the save will be killed either way, and creatures whose hit dice and Con are so high that they will always succeed just won't care.What do you think of metannihilator raising the base damage to 60d6 (+3d6 per +1) but changing the save to: Fort 1/2? Herald of Eschaton could then double this damage (it would remain as written).Very cool name, btw, on that last one. [edit]Though I find myself putting in an extra &quot;the&quot;.&nbsp; But that sounds good too. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Then it's worthwhile considering the effect of this spell on opponents.&nbsp; Let's see[code]Young Adult Force Dragon (KR 40)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +33&nbsp; &nbsp; 700 hpYoung Adult Prismatic Dragon (KR 42) +36&nbsp; &nbsp; 838 hpPrimal Earth Elemental (KR 49)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +60&nbsp; 1,392 hpBlack Slaad (KR 43)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +30&nbsp; &nbsp; 536 hpElder Treant (KR 36)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +45&nbsp; 1,025 hpPrismasaurus (KR 40)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +41&nbsp; &nbsp; 870 hp[/code]If you don't want the Black Slaad to be killed by a failed save, then you pretty much have to limit Herald of the Eschaton to 120d6 +6d6 per +1.&nbsp; That's 483 damage at USP 42 (276d6).&nbsp; 368d6 does 644 on a failed save, and that might be a little too much.&nbsp; I guess it depends- how many of these spells should it take to slay an Elder Treant or a Primal Earth Elemental?Few equal CR monsters can be killed by a damaging attack on a failed save, even with a wizard's best spell.&nbsp; So I think it is safer to go with the 6d6 version of Herald of the Eschaton.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 3058961, member: 141"] I'm not sure that epic casters would be using these spells; as you mentioned previously, saving throws of epic opponents outstrip the save DCs. And so these spells aren't doing 368d6 damage, but 5d6. Which is much less cool. This seems to be a more significant issue to address than whether the max damage at USP 42 is 368d6 or 276d6. Creatures who will fail the save will be killed either way, and creatures whose hit dice and Con are so high that they will always succeed just won't care. What do you think of metannihilator raising the base damage to 60d6 (+3d6 per +1) but changing the save to: Fort 1/2? Herald of Eschaton could then double this damage (it would remain as written). Very cool name, btw, on that last one. [i][edit]Though I find myself putting in an extra "the". But that sounds good too. :)[/i] Then it's worthwhile considering the effect of this spell on opponents. Let's see [code] Young Adult Force Dragon (KR 40) +33 700 hp Young Adult Prismatic Dragon (KR 42) +36 838 hp Primal Earth Elemental (KR 49) +60 1,392 hp Black Slaad (KR 43) +30 536 hp Elder Treant (KR 36) +45 1,025 hp Prismasaurus (KR 40) +41 870 hp [/code] If you don't want the Black Slaad to be killed by a failed save, then you pretty much have to limit Herald of the Eschaton to 120d6 +6d6 per +1. That's 483 damage at USP 42 (276d6). 368d6 does 644 on a failed save, and that might be a little too much. I guess it depends- how many of these spells should it take to slay an Elder Treant or a Primal Earth Elemental? Few equal CR monsters can be killed by a damaging attack on a failed save, even with a wizard's best spell. So I think it is safer to go with the 6d6 version of Herald of the Eschaton. [/QUOTE]

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