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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3063405" data-attributes="member: 141">I wonder if our analysis is to the point.&nbsp; Should a 39th level wizard be able to kill 9 equal KR encounters per day on his own?&nbsp; If he could, wouldn't we think he was too powerful?&nbsp; So finding that's it difficult for the wizard to take down a young adult force dragon (even with several specialization feats) is actually a good thing.But suppose the target was less than half 1/2 his KR?&nbsp; Well, that should be a different story.&nbsp; In particular, a wizard surprising a single target half his level should have an excellent chance of destroying it if he uses his best spell for the job.&nbsp; Destroy based spells are not the best for equal KR encounters, perhaps, but are very good for zapping single, weak monsters.&nbsp; In the following chart I list monsters of various groupings, together with their Fortitude save and hit points.&nbsp; I've left out golems and swarms and other creatures who might be inconvenient for a wizard with a single-target spell.&nbsp; I think that a destroy based spell by a 26th level wizard can easily handle KR 12 threats.&nbsp; A 39th level wizard should be able to easily handle a KR 18 threat.&nbsp; A 52nd level wizard should be able to slay KR 24 targets pretty easily.&nbsp; Anyway, I would suggest these would be appropriate benchmarks for the destroy suite of spells.[code]KR 12 Monsters - Fort save and hit pointsNightshade (Nightwing)&nbsp; &nbsp; +9&nbsp;&nbsp; 144 hpNoble Salamander&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +12&nbsp; 112 hpYoung Gold Dragon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +12&nbsp; 133 hp12-headed Cry/pyro Hydra&nbsp; +13&nbsp; 129 hpElder Xorn&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +13&nbsp; 130 hpGlabrezu&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +18&nbsp; 174 hpColossal Spider&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +20&nbsp; 208 hpKR 18 monsters (CR 26-28) - Fort save and hit pointsNightshade (Nightcrawler) +12&nbsp; 212 hpPlanetar&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +14&nbsp; 133 hpBlack Dragon (Adult)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +15&nbsp; 199 hpFormian QUeen&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +19&nbsp; 190 hpMarilith&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +19&nbsp; 216 hpBehemoth gorilla&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +24&nbsp; 376 hpKR 24-ish Monsters - Fort save and hit pointsAnaxim (KR 26)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +12&nbsp; 430 hpShadow of the Void (KR 22) +13&nbsp; 227 hp&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Shape of Fire (KR 22)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +13&nbsp; 227 hpWinterwight (KR 24)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +14&nbsp; 208 hpNeh-Thalggu (KR 26)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +16&nbsp; 336 hpGloom (KR 24)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +17&nbsp; 337 hpPit fiend (KR 21)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +19&nbsp; 225 hpGreen Dragon (old) (KR 24) +21&nbsp; 325 hp&nbsp;&nbsp; Thorciasid (KR 21)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +21&nbsp; 478 hpBalor (KR 22)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +22&nbsp; 290 hpChichimec (KR 25)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +22&nbsp; 435 hpTitan (KR 20)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +26&nbsp; 370 hpMu-Spore (KR 25)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +28&nbsp; 562 hp [/code]It would seem that our 39th level wizard with a DC 42 spell should be able to slay 24 KR monsters quite easily.&nbsp; The Mu-Spore might give him trouble, and perhaps the Titan.&nbsp;&nbsp; He's doing lots of damage, so he can afford to raise the DC a bit.&nbsp; I am presuming a high powered headband, and both the Metannihilator and Herald of the Eschaton feats.&nbsp; Without that he would be doing only 1/4 the damage; 241 hp.&nbsp; Which is about enough for the 18 KR that he should be able to handle.This looks all right to me.&nbsp; Does it look all right to you guys?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 3063405, member: 141"] I wonder if our analysis is to the point. Should a 39th level wizard be able to kill 9 equal KR encounters per day on his own? If he could, wouldn't we think he was too powerful? So finding that's it difficult for the wizard to take down a young adult force dragon (even with several specialization feats) is actually a good thing. But suppose the target was less than half 1/2 his KR? Well, that should be a different story. In particular, a wizard surprising a single target half his level should have an excellent chance of destroying it if he uses his best spell for the job. [i]Destroy[/i] based spells are not the best for equal KR encounters, perhaps, but are very good for zapping single, weak monsters. In the following chart I list monsters of various groupings, together with their Fortitude save and hit points. I've left out golems and swarms and other creatures who might be inconvenient for a wizard with a single-target spell. I think that a [i]destroy[/i] based spell by a 26th level wizard can easily handle KR 12 threats. A 39th level wizard should be able to easily handle a KR 18 threat. A 52nd level wizard should be able to slay KR 24 targets pretty easily. Anyway, I would suggest these would be appropriate benchmarks for the [i]destroy[/i] suite of spells. [code]KR 12 Monsters - Fort save and hit points Nightshade (Nightwing) +9 144 hp Noble Salamander +12 112 hp Young Gold Dragon +12 133 hp 12-headed Cry/pyro Hydra +13 129 hp Elder Xorn +13 130 hp Glabrezu +18 174 hp Colossal Spider +20 208 hp KR 18 monsters (CR 26-28) - Fort save and hit points Nightshade (Nightcrawler) +12 212 hp Planetar +14 133 hp Black Dragon (Adult) +15 199 hp Formian QUeen +19 190 hp Marilith +19 216 hp Behemoth gorilla +24 376 hp KR 24-ish Monsters - Fort save and hit points Anaxim (KR 26) +12 430 hp Shadow of the Void (KR 22) +13 227 hp Shape of Fire (KR 22) +13 227 hp Winterwight (KR 24) +14 208 hp Neh-Thalggu (KR 26) +16 336 hp Gloom (KR 24) +17 337 hp Pit fiend (KR 21) +19 225 hp Green Dragon (old) (KR 24) +21 325 hp Thorciasid (KR 21) +21 478 hp Balor (KR 22) +22 290 hp Chichimec (KR 25) +22 435 hp Titan (KR 20) +26 370 hp Mu-Spore (KR 25) +28 562 hp [/code] It would seem that our 39th level wizard with a DC 42 spell should be able to slay 24 KR monsters quite easily. The Mu-Spore might give him trouble, and perhaps the Titan. He's doing lots of damage, so he can afford to raise the DC a bit. I am presuming a high powered [i]headband[/i], and both the Metannihilator and Herald of the Eschaton feats. Without that he would be doing only 1/4 the damage; 241 hp. Which is about enough for the 18 KR that he should be able to handle. This looks all right to me. Does it look all right to you guys? [/QUOTE]

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