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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3068536" data-attributes="member: 141">I think I see what you mean.  Since I am not accounting for the feats and other equipment that a 77th character would have, I'm dramatically underestimating his capabilities.  And so I'm pegging the 200 minute base duration as appropriate, while really it is overpowered once you take 77th level feats and equipment into account.Except that this is all backward.  We design feats to make their fireballs ten times as wide, and their disintegrates four times as damaging, because the linear factors are letting us down- they aren't giving us the results that should be appropriate for characters of certain levels.  That isn't an argument for crippling the system even more.  Same thing for magic items that help epic spellcasting- they are introduced to fix flaws.  They aren't justification for adding flaws.  If the fortify seed can be made to scale properly to level 100 and beyond then it doesn't need any feats to enhance it.  If you are worried that players won't have enough cool things to spend their feat slots on, you should buy some of U_K's products- he has ideas that will keep them happy for a long, long time.Similarly, if we are doing the mitigating factors right, then we don't need a rod of excellent magic.  A rod of excellent magic is a sign that there is something wrong with the ELH system.  Just like those ubiquitous headbands are a sign that there is something wrong with the current saving throw system.  Maybe we can live with them, but if we can make a rod of excellent magic superfluous then we should junk it.  Just like your system does with those +30 medallions of spellcraft.     The fact that they are absent is a sign that you've improved the system significantly.But suppose you are right, and that 1 minute/level is (for whatever reason) the best duration for auroch's strength, and for the fortify seed.  We still have a problem with easy bonuses at low levels:  The 40th level character could make it last 8 hours without any significant mitigation (besides the ritual).  And you can do a lot of adventuring in 8 hours.  Heck, a 30th level sorcerer (leadership 40) should be able to do 3 hours easily.  And that's also a significant chunk of time in a dungeon.[sblock=Calculations]40th level. 43 ranks.  Seed +14. Extend to 8 hours (+46). Increase bonus to +34 (+48). Cabal Leadership +60 (-60).  10 minute casting time (-8).30th level. 33 ranks. Seed +14. Extend to 3 hours (+16). Increase bonus to +34 (+48). Cabal Leadership +40 (-40). 10 minute casting time (-8).If the 40th level sorcerer only wants a 3 hour buff, then he can raise the bonus to +48 pretty easily.[/sblock]I am not at all sure that the PCs will be doing any more adventuring in 24 hours than they do in 3 hours; so if your worry is that they will have +34 buffs while adventuring, then a 20 minute base duration doesn't address the issue.  If the 20 minute base duration doesn't address the issue, then we have to fix a different part of it (probably the ritual casting).  And consider other reasons for and against a particular base duration for those buffs.  I've gone over my reasons for why it makes more sense that buffs be all day than for a few hours.  I don't have any new arguments, so I'll just refer you to my appended comments in post 153.</blockquote>

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