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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3077582" data-attributes="member: 141">I see we were simul-posting there!That seems a good summary of the verbose second half of my previous post.It seems odd that something so quintessentially wizardly as epic magic would be ineligible for bonus wizard feats.  But I'm afraid it might be necessary to do something along those lines.What knots are those?  It says that a wizard who spends one feat to get an epic spell slot is limited to a spell whose SP is 29 or lower.  If he wants a better spell, he has to get another feat.  When the character is level 27, it should occur to him to get another spell such spell slot.  That seems reasonable enough.[sblock=Unless... Is it the save DCs?]What I think is problematic about the proposal is not the formula, but the save DCs that result from pouring everything into ISC, and then basing spell DC on the level of the spell slot.  A level 50 wizard with a 50 intelligence can get a level 29 spell if he spends all 20 epic feats on ISC.  That spell will have a save DC of 39+20 = 59.  Which is a bit high.  Supposing that ISC can only be purchased with general feats, then he could get level 19 spells at level 50 (save DC 49) which is a lot more reasonable.  Conventional casters would mostly be getting IM, so they wouldn't much care.  As much as it pains me to admit it (ISC is very wizardly and should qualify for bonus feats) all the alternatives seem worse.I.e. you could bring back the higher ability prerequisite to use high level slots; the wizard would just barely be able to cast a level 20 spell if he has a 50 Intelligence.  This would have a similar effect as the first proposal, except you might see 50th level characters with a 60 intelligence running around, and save DCs of 65+.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />   Or you could just revert to the rule that the base DC is a flat 20.  Which is kinda boring, but doable. While I can understand a metamagicked spell not increasing its DC, it seems that a spell that is "really" level 13 should have a base DC of 23, not 20.What you do depends on the conclusion of the whole equipment/hit points/save DCs/Spell DCs discussion, which we were going to split off in another thread.  So I'll hide this in a spoiler block. [/sblock]I was wondering if you'd agree with that.    <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> I suppose if we have rules that cover these cases well, we just apply the rules to other spells similarly, and hope for the best.</blockquote>

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