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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3091373" data-attributes="member: 141">I dunno.  Make up a quality, "noumenal", say, for creatures that are anchored to reality; they have a self, they don't have a duration, they can burn xp (or use abilities that normally require xp); they have the "leverage" to conjure other members of their kind, or to teleport.  As opposed to "phenomenal", which is the set of contrary properties.  [Summon] gives you a phenomenal creature, while [call] gives you a noumenal creature.  I think the distinction is relevant when you look at simulacrum, btw..  It may also help explore the gap between reality and illusion, such as that bridged by the Reified Vision aggregate.  Anyway, the noumenal/phenomenal switch represents a difference of +8 SP; the difference between the CR 16 of [summon] and the CR 14 of [call].  That's on a [summon] duration of 20 minutes; if you assume that casters will reduce the duration by two steps (to the minimum of 1 round) then you would make the noumenal factor +16 SP to compensate.But yeah, basing the spell on the planar ally suite (retooled to a basis of CR) is much more sensible than using gate.  It automatically addresses the anomaly whereby templated creatures cost the same as non-templated creatures, as long as the template leaves the HD untouched.edit: I agree that [summon] will normally be used in combat.  But I wished to address the need for maximal flexibility by increasing the duration with exponential factors at the expense of CR.  This could be undone (according to the break even rule) by a PC through the use of reduced-duration mitigating factors.  If someone wished to extend the duration beyond the limits set by the speed, they would use the normal factor based on Extend Spell (+2 SP per 100% increase of the base duration).  The alternative to this is either to allow unrestricted use of exponential duration factors by PCs (which is problematic because of the f-word), or to arbitrarily limit the flexibility and utility of the seed.  I don't see why you would want to do this.edit2: The reason I thought that parameters like range and duration should match is if you want to do multiple things with a spell; if you want to [dispel] a creature's protections, [afflict] his constitution and also attempt to [destroy] him, it seems to me that you would want the ranges of the different spells to match.  Similarly if you want to [fortify] a creature you summon, and so on.  I guess I don't really understand how aggregates are going to work.</blockquote>

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