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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3110367" data-attributes="member: 141">Many seeds have an obvious unity, but others seem like an elephant; to a blind man's groping they will seem to have many different parts, but there is really an underlying unity.  A religious lens might distinguish sharply between summoning angels and summoning demons, but that is a superficial truth; the deeper truth is that they are part of the same [summon] seed.  And an even deeper truth might be that they are aspects of a 2*CR meta-seed.  Some domains also exhibit an obvious unity; the Healing domain, for instance, maps very well onto the [heal] domain.  I'll call it an elephant, too, since there is a unity even if it is obvious.But some domains seem like constellations; there is a pattern in their arrangement, but the pattern is an accident of perspective, not a sign of underlying unity.  From a different point in the galaxy those stars don't make any kind of pattern.  Consider the Good domain:[sblock=Good Domain]   1.  Protection from Evil: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.   2. Aid: +1 on attack rolls, +1 on saves against fear, 1d8 temporary hp +1/level (max +10).   3. Magic Circle against Evil: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.   4. Holy Smite: Damages and blinds evil creatures.   5. Dispel Evil: +4 bonus against attacks by evil creatures.   6. Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.   7. Holy Word: Kills, paralyzes, slows, or deafens nongood subjects.   8. Holy Aura: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against evil spells.   9. Summon Monster IX*: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.[/sblock]I see [ward], [fortify], [dispel], direct damage (in the [energy] seed, most likely), [afflict], [summon]. There are only 9 spells, but between them they touch on at least 6 seeds, some in rather complicated ways.  The [good] descriptor is a common feature, but not universal. Is this an elephant or is it a constellation?  Is there a real, though concealed unity, or is it just a superficial thematic connection?Domains that are elephants could be made into special clerical seeds. Each domain spell would be the basis of the sub-seed of an overarching [domain] seed; there would be up to 9 basic functions (one for each domain spell) each with its relevant factors. Between the 22 domains in the SRD we have most of the spells that would be needed. Assuming the domains are all elephants. For example, clerics with the Good domain could apply factors to make a magic circle against evil that protects a town for a hundred years.  (It would involve lots of exponential factors, and maybe with the 6 SP = 1 spell level till 10th level).  Or an epic holy smite or holy word (I suspect holy word is an anomaly, though, overpowered for its level, and hard to scale up).  The summon monster IX would turn into a version of our [summon] seed, one that is restricted to summoning good creatures.  And so on.But is the Good domain an elephant?  Is there a [Good] seed that corresponds to it, all of whose sub-seeds have a Good domain spell as their base?  I doubt it, and I am not at all it is worth the effort to try to pursue this route with all the domains.  The result would be an epic spell system that would be somewhat more cumbersome than the current one, certainly more repetitious.But if you really wanted to make seed access domain based, I'd suggest this:  Look at the 9th level spell of a domain, and see if it corresponds to a domain.  If it does, then that is what the cleric gets access to.  If there are restrictions on the spell (like only summoning good creatures), then that restriction is inherited.  If the 9th level spell is problematic (miracle in the case of the Luck domain) then look at the 8th level spell.  The reasoning is that the highest level domain spells represent the fullest expression of the domain, and represent the key to the relevant seed.  Maybe a key that can only unlock part of a seed (as in the [energy] and [summon] seeds) but this is the exception.  There are lots of elemental swarm and summon monster IX spells on those lists, so [summon] would be a common seed.Furthermore, give all clerics access to [heal] and [life].  If they have the Healing domain, then they get a +2 bonus.  Clerics with an elemental domain should also get the relevant aspect of the [energy] seed.This will give all clerics access to 3 to 6 seeds; two domain based seeds plus [heal] and [life] and maybe an aspect of [energy] and [summon].  If that is not enough, then repeat the analysis for the 8th or 7th level spells of a domain.  Or allow the PC to choose a seed whose base spell he can cast; [fortify], say, or [foresee].  Or allow a feat to give access to new seeds; 2 seeds per feat if the base spells (or most of them) are clerical, 1 seed per feat if it is not.Outside of these favored seeds, impose some restrictions.  Maybe they can only use 3/4 of their SP towards these other seeds.  So they can't cast a SP 24 spell until 29th level.  Or they can't use the seeds at all.  Or their access is capped, or something.Druids.  I'd give them [summon], except that the only outsiders they can summon are elementals.  [weather], [energy] and whatever awaken belongs to.  Reincarnation should get folded into that, but I wouldn't give them the life seed per se.  Is that enough, or should druids get more?</blockquote>

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