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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3127317" data-attributes="member: 141">But high ability scores don't give bonus epic spells, do they?  Also, you only need 3 Automatic Quicken feats for 9th level spells, not 9.  While AMC is extremely versatile, it could also be that these official feats just suck.Repeat Spell seems akin, to me, to Empower and Maximize; it's actually a double Empower (+4 levels), though at a bit of a discount because of the one round delay.  +3 levels is the same as Maximize, which would be +12 SP if it were allowed.  Maybe make it +10 SP for the difference from 1 round => 1 minute?  Kernel analysis for the clerical version of poison is (X + touch +2 + repeat in one minute +10 -4 only affects living creatures = 24) indicating that 1d10 Con damage is worth 16 points.  d10 is such a strange number, though.  Maybe the true kernel is 1d6 Con damage = 12 points, and each increase in die size is worth +2?  Well, up to d12, of course.  Or maybe 1 point of Con damage = +3 SP?  Then d10 (5.5) should really be 17.5... bah.  Somewhere in there.Are there any other spells around that do poison damage?  Figuring out the mechanics from one spell is like trying to reconstruct [energy blast] by extrapolating acid arrow.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> I think that would be a good idea.  Sacred cows, and all.We could write a "Spontaneous Metamagic" feat that allows +0 level metamagic feats to be added on the fly, and which wizards would have to take before the could take AMC.  Sorcerers already have this ability, of course, so they would satisfy the new prerequisite (e.g. "must be able to spontaneously apply metamagic to spells as they are cast").This would help curb the immediate attractiveness of AMC for a low epic caster, addressing your concern that it might be broken in the 21 to 30 range, and would also give an edge to sorcerers, again addressing a concern of yours.I'm rather cool on the idea of your reinvention of the Automatic Blah family of feats.  But then again, I don't have your reservations about AMC.***Although even I have reservations about UK's use of the feat, especially in the context of Empower.  However I do find that some of his results coincide with mine, which pleases me.It turns that in UK's system, double Empowering something changes the base value of the spell.  So a double double is a quadruple, not a triple.  And if there is not a random variable, he allows it to apply to a constant in the effect.  His example was a 17th level power word: kill which could affect a creature with 400 hp or less.  My little formula was (6 x 7 + (400 / 6) - 45 = 42 + 66 - 45 = 63 = level 16.5 according to SL = 6 + (SP/6)).  Though that's just coincidence; my method progresses linearly, not exponentially.  His method, applied to a hypothetical 8th level spell that does 25d6 damage would be to get a 12th level spell (SP 36 in my system) that does 50d6 damage, and a 16th level spell (SP 60 in my system) that does 100d6.  That's very close to my own analysis.  (With MF and Empower at +8, a triply empowered (+24) 40d6 (+15) inflexible (-4) energy blast (24) for an SP of 59 would do exactly 100d6).There's no mitigation in his system, except for AMC of course, and the fine detail is lacking; his direct damage spells also outstrip hit points at higher levels, which UK admits might be broken.  But still, I feel that he's got a good intuitive grasp on what should be available up through the teens (SP 24 to 78 or thereabouts) that the system we are crafting is intended to cover.  I'm pleased that although our methods are different, we can get to approximately the same place.  There really is a logical extensions of non-epic magic into the epic range, though perhaps the exact formulation is capable of being defined in different ways.</blockquote>

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