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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3130886" data-attributes="member: 141">It's 8th level.  Swift action, 1 round/level (D), personal - the usual parameters.  Unyielding form of inevitable death turns you into a marut (also 8th); you don't get any of the 1/day or 1/week abilities, and the 1/day abilities can only be used once.  Form of the threefold beast (5th) turns you into a chimera, aspect of the icy hunter a winter wolf (4th), and shape of the hellspawned stalker a hell hound (3rd).[edit]It appears to me that the beholder form spell couldn't be set any lower than 8th level since it includes disintegrate in its effects.  A marut (CR 15) is similar in power to a beholder (CR 13), and couldn't be a 9th level spell since it is quite a bit weaker than the mature red dragon (CR 18 WotC, KR 24) of 9th level.  Based on the benchmark of a beholder = 8th level, you get 2 CR = 1 SL.  I.e. a chimera is CR 7, and so chimera form is (13-7)/2 = 3 spell levels less than beholder form.  A winter wolf is CR 5, and so is (13 - 5)/2 = 4 levels less.  A hell hound is CR 3, and so is (13 -3)/2 = 5 levels less.In kernel form this is CR * 3 + 9 = SP, although the marut is an 8th level spell, not a 9th level spell.  According to this progression, however, dragonshape is very anomalous; 63 SP, which is 3 points into epic territory.  According to the WotC CR of 18.  If a mature adult red dragon is really KR 24, then this is 81 SP (kernel) which is SP 45.  That seems too much.If we are replicating these spells with an epic seed, the considerations about when disintegrate is available shouldn't be a problem.  And so I'd suggest we retain the formula of CR * 2 - 30 = SP that can be derived from dragonshape.  This would mean that turning into a marut (or weaker creature) would be essentially free; you would have to "pad out" the seed to get the total value up to 24.  Probably combine it with [augment].  While you are in the form, you can't cast spells, even with Natural Spell, so I think it is fair.If you want to use the CM progression, the formula would be CR * 3 - 27 = SP.  The kernel value of 60 corresponds to an epic spell of SP 24, so you just subtract 36 from a kernel formula to get the seed formula.  Or add 36 to extrapolate from epic spells into non-epic levels (where 1 Spell Level = 6 SP).I'm not sure whether to retain the limits on the uses of SLAs.  I've used +8 SP before as a "repeated effects" factor, but that was so that a holy aura could blind multiple attackers.  With beholder form it would be 20 rounds to 200 minutes for +4, and to make it last 9 times as long would be another +16.  13 * 2 - 30  + 8 (repeated) + 20 (duration) = 24 SP  Is assuming the form of a beholder (with unlimited use of SLAs) for 30 hours a decent entry-level epic level spell?  Your version of the seed is 10 points less powerful than the one I refer to.  [/edit]Is immediate that high?  In kernel terms, that would be +4 spell levels. Are there any immediate action spells that have standard action versions at a lower level?  Or at least that can be related to such spells through a break-down into factors and known kernels?  I imagine feather fall is a weakened form of fly and levitate, but it's probably aberrant.There's a 4th level power word in CM that reduces a creature of 10 hp or less to -9 hp.  No roll required to stabilize.  My PW formula (as applied to the non-epic domain; (SL * 6) + (HP / 6) – 9) says that there should therefore be a 5th level arcane death spell that, on a failed save, reduces its target to a stable -9 hit points.  That sounds reasonable, don't you think?I like the sound of [augment] as opposed to [fortify]. I'll try to get some work done on energy drain, poison, and cause disease this weekend.  There's a 5th level arcane spell in CM that conveys mummy rot (cryptwarden's grasp).  I'll have to keep an eye on it as I try to generalize the other spells.</blockquote>

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