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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3133711" data-attributes="member: 141">I have some results on the [harrow] seed, particularly the poison (ability damage), disease and energy drain aspects.First I have to warn you that I am using "reserved factors": Empower (valued at +8 SP) and Repeat Spell (valued at +10SP).  Repeat Spell is weaker than double empowering the spell because saves and energy resistance get to apply twice, and there is also the element of delay which makes it awkward (enemies can leave the area in that round, friends can't enter it, etc.)  The most important reason is that I want instantaneous => 1 full round to be a difference of 6 SP so that it parallels the difference between a swift action and 1 full round casting time.  (I don't know about pricing immediate actions yet.)Anyway, if +16 is double damage at the same time (double empowered), +10 is double damage with half immediately and half a round later (Repeat Spell), then, following the progression for casting time, +8 would be for an interval of one minute, +6 for an interval of 10 minutes, +4 for an interval of 1 hour, and +2 for an interval of 1 day.  Or you could think of it as +16, with a -6 mitigation for a 1 round delay, -8 for a 1 minute delay, -10 for a 10 minute delay, -12 for a 1 hour delay, or -14 for a 1 day delay.I think a point of ability damage is worth about +3 SP.  Maybe a trifle less.  +2 SP is probably too little, unless you discount non-Con damage somewhat.So poison, which does 5.5 Con damage, is worth 17.5 SP.  +2 for touch range, +8 for repeated damage in one minute, or 27.5 SP.  A solid 4th level spell, halfway to 5th.  A non-lethal poison might be a bit cheaper.  Maybe not.I'm going to price contagion on the basis of slimy doom, whose 1d4 Con damage is worth 7.5 points off the bat, +4 for flexibility in the number of diseases possible (7), +2 for touch range, +2 for the one day delay between damage, +8 for it repeating indefinitely, -4 for the subsequent saves being a different (and lower) DC than the original save.  I used a +8 indefinite repetition factor in holy aura, and it seemed to work all right.  -4 seems appropriate for this downside to the spell.  This comes out to 7.5 +4 +2 +2 +8 -4 = 19.5, a 3rd level spell.  There's room for a small factor to specify how many saves are required to be cured, and other variations between disease.Giving a disease the healing resistant effects of mummy rot should be +12 SP (an [afflict] secondary seed).  In case of mummy rot the caster level check is fixed at a rather low value of DC 20; count that as a -4 mitigating factor.  Maybe -6.  Range touch +2, 1d6 Con would be 10.5 SP, 1d6 Cha is +7 SP, damage is repeated after one day +2, damage can be indefinitely repeated +8, uses a flat DC for subsequent saves, -4, curse effect +8 net, for a total of 33.5.  A 5th level spell.  After studying enervation I decided to make 1 negative level also be worth 3 SP; 7.5 SP for the 1d4 levels involved.  The range factor is +6 (close). There is no save against these negative levels, and I thought that a constant "no save" factor could be abused.  So I decided to double the base cost (USP).  The result is (7.5 + 6) * 2 = 27, a 4th level spell.  I think the 1 hour/level duration is inherent in these spells, though maybe you could shorten them with exponential mitigating factors after doubling.  Though maybe not at non-epic levels; a spell that gave 1d4 negative levels for 1 round per level is potentially a death spell, and so should be at least 4th level.Energy drain is similar, but 2d4 negative levels are imposed instead (15 SP).  The range is still close (+6 SP) but instead of lasting 1 hour/level they last at least a day; I decided to extend them with a regular +2 factor.  So the base value is 15 +6 +2 = 23.  To represent that the negative levels convert into energy drain (upon a failed save), I thought that doubling this base value would be appropriate.  Two doublings is a tripling, so the value is 23 * 3 = 69.  Since the conversion of negative levels to energy drain occurs a day later, there is a -14 mitigation factor.  So the final SP is 55, a 9th level spell.As a reminder to readers: if factors put the SP over 60 we subtract 36 to represent the SP prerequisite of seed based magic.  Under 60 we just divide by 6 and drop the remainder to find the spell level.If the save 24 hours later didn't allow a save, that should be worth another doubling.  I don't think the conversion into energy drain can be moved up, so you will always have the -14 delay factor.  And you can't get a bigger delay than the duration of the negative levels (a day or a little more), so unless you extend it an awful lot, there's no way of getting more than -14.  So a close range spell that caused 2d4 levels to be lost automatically (no save) after 24 hours would have a kernel SP of (23*4 - 14) = 78 or a seed SP of 42.  Probably not worth casting; at these levels folks should have access to a cleric.A 10th level spell should be possible that allows the caster's touch to inflict 12 negative levels (no save) that will last for 20 rounds.  The kernel formula would be (3 * 10 +6) * 2 - 12 (duration) - 36 (kernels to seeds) = 36 * 2 - 12 -36 = 24 SP.  I wonder if the loss of 60 hit points in this way would trigger a save vs massive damage?  With a -12 to the save, that could be very dangerous.</blockquote>

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