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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sepulchrave II" data-source="post: 3138910" data-attributes="member: 4303">Hmm.What if we remove AMC from the jacobean equation altogether - restrict its use to nonepic spells. No empower as a factor.The 50th-level caster (30d6 and 1d6/SP) seed is putting out 59d6 fireballs; these would rise to 236d6 fireballs with a x4 dice HotE-type feat; If he'd loaded up on epic slots (let's assume no +3 cumulative Spellcraft prerequisite), he could dish out 17 of these in a day, if the rest of his feats were Epic Spellcasting.Conversely, the metamagic specialist (MF, Enhance, 18 x AMC) can double-enhance/sextruple empower dbfs in 9th-level slots (7 x 160d6) and double-enhance/quintuple empower dbfs in his 7th & 8th-level slots (15 x 140d6). I'm assuming a non-specialist wizard with an Int of 48, here. An epic ring of wizardry is going to count for a lot, here - there again, who's to say that the jacobean hasn't acquired his big-ass staff of epic mitigation by this point; it probably shouldn't be a consideration.I think pattern this is OK, but it strikes both AMC and the empower factor from the equation. Then again, I've forgotten why AMC was included in the first place for Epic Spellcasting - I suspect that it may have been to moderate the progression of [blast] and [destroy]. At 50th level, 19 x AMC (at -2) can also prompt a Save of 54+ relevant modifiers against the base slay or compel seeds - which may be more of a problem. A Save DC of 75 is quite probably routine for a 50th-level caster under these circumstances - a DC of around 56 (no AMC) seems more reasonable; if a factor which bypassed natural immunities was available for +8, this would fall to 52: this is still pretty solid. A mature adult prismatic dragon (KR 52) has a Fort and Will save of +45. A living vault (KR 49) is a good example, as it's normally immune to [death] and [mind-affecting] effects. It's Fort +32 Will +33 - (suggesting that maybe the factor to penetrate immunities should be stiffer).An elder titan (KR 63) is Fort +47, Will +50I think if we retain AMC, then it will overpower [slay] and [compel]. Not that saves work, at these levels. Sorry for the digression - didn't mean to end up here.How do you feel about reconstructing the monsters in the ELH some time? I wonder if monsters had epic save progressions after 20HD it would help; after all, characters should have regular BAB progressions, right?</blockquote>

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