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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3143224" data-attributes="member: 141">I agree with you that Enhance is close kin to Empower.  There's precious little difference whether you're a 30th level spellcaster casting an enhanced dbf or an empowered dbf; one does 30d6 of damage, the other does 20d6 * 1.5 of damage.  Once you make it +2 levels the similarity is even more striking.The same thing holds with the empower factor at 10SP; a jacobian can pay 10SP to do 30d6 of damage, or he can pay 10SP to do 20d6 * 1.5 of damage.  Decisions, decisions.Incidentally, UK seems to allow all kinds of things with his Empowers.  Want to power word someone with twice the normal hit point limit?  Double Empower it.  Want to call a planar ally with four times the normal hit dice?  Quadruple Empower it.  For us it would triple the hit dice, since we use the standard double double = triple progression, not double double = quadruple.The main effect of allowing both Enhance and Empower is that it makes the damage curve quadratic, not linear.  I suspect the toughness of opponents will increase in a non-linear fashion, though maybe more slowly than the damage curve that follows from my suggestion above.  Oh well; we could always add in another non-stackable feat for when fireballs seem to be falling short (some time after 50th level).  Replace the percentage increase (50%) with your caster level, perhaps.I'm fine with that.  The seed generalist (no feats) will still be doing 82d6, and the guy with the goal-post feats will be doing 262d6?  With [blast] I mean; twice that for disintegrate.Speaking of disintegrate, Have you considered the point about tying the save DC to the seed DC?  E.g. save DC = SP+3, with no modification for high ability scores.  After all, high ability scores don't yield bonus spell slots, nor are they required to cast very difficult epic spells.  Why should they continue to be tied to saving throws? I'm thinking that +1 DC = +2SP would still be a factor- it would push the save DC a bit higher than the SP would indicate.  Feats would still work the same way.  High ability scores would give bonuses for non-epic spells.  Just that epic spells would be different.The main advantage of this plan would be that it would allow us not to worry as much about epic buffs and what kind of epic head-band of intellect a character of a given level could afford.The smaller area trumps the larger, doesn't it? I'd imagine that the result would normally end up being a 20-ft. radius sphere when combined with other seeds, or smaller.  Which would be good; that means that the seed "really" costs 13SP, so it's not a huge deal if people pay only 12SP for its benefit.BTW, self-compounding will add +20d6 at the cost of 12SP.  This is rate of return is appropriate in a single seed spell an Empower factor has already been used in the seed; then you'd expect 12SP to yield +18d6, which is close enough.  (Empower is added per seed, right?)  This, in turn, would happen around USP 44.  I'm wondering if 30th level might be too soon to compound spells.  40th level seems too late, but you could compound any number of seeds then.Just a thought.  Level 21 = epic spells.  Level 41 = compound spells.  Level 61 = aggregate spells?  Although mitigation could let people try compound or aggregate spells earlier.</blockquote>

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