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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Doctor Shaft" data-source="post: 2646999" data-attributes="member: 25737">Epic characters in D&D are epic because of their abilities, not necessarily what they've done.  A level 10 character can become a legend in any story, but we all know it's mostly because of WHAT he's done, not HOW he did it.  And as the point has been made before, imitating a level 1 spell for free via an insane skill check is hardly "ridiculous."  One last thought. I know some folks can accept "Asian" flavor in their "Western European" games. They don't like fighters with big swords getting beat down by bare-fisted monks. They think it's ridiculous clashing of fantasy elements.  That's cool.  Some will also find the epic skill sets over the top for "mundane warriors." That's cool too.  But then they readily accept the low-level spell "Enlarge Person."  I don't care if you like the sorcery element more than the superhero element, Enlarge Person is just, in any book, simply over-the-top and ridiculous.  How in the high realms does a low-level wizard of hardly any repute manage to increase the size and matter of a man, and his clothing, and his possessions, and somehow not mess the guy's metabolism up, rip his clothing, or destroy any of the items and possessions he carries? How is enlarge person not an epic spell? The ramifications of almost instantaneously increasing a person's size and fighting ability (due to size increase) is so enormous, that I cringe every time I see it invoked as a strategy for play."Quick, use the enlarge person scroll on your monk... then fight."  How does a monk live with himself? How comical is the story?  "Cornered by the bandit thieves, Ichi the monk quickly went into battle action, and like He-Man he used his scroll of enlargement to make himself big again so that he could fight.  And after the battle was over, he shrunk back down, none of his possessions or clothing affected by the ordeal."  That takes quite a bit of stretching of the imagination, and it more resembles a children's saturday morning cartoon. (Hulk Smash!) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  I'd rather see a guy swim up a waterfall.  That, at least, takes far less "acceptance" considering the difficulty and setting of the maneuver.</blockquote>

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