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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elminster's Son" data-source="post: 2648066" data-attributes="member: 37391">To begin with. Have any of you who think this is crazy ever gotten a character that high of a level? I just got done DMing for 43rd level characters. And I've seen the party diplomat turn a small horde of Ogremages into friendly allies after a few successful rolls. (True, they weren't suicidal fanatics). But when you add in the stats these characters are likely to have through such means as Wish, Miracle, natural enhancements, magical enhancements, etc. A DC 80 swim check can potentially be a walk in the park! And that's stark naked with no magical items!46 ranks in swim + a STR modifier of 15 + Miscellaneous bonuses = about a 65 to 70!! And all he's got to do is get a natural ten on his roll or better and he's up that waterfall!I don't think it's saying you swim up the thing with no resistance, afterall, you watch a salmon make that check. And it's a stinkin' animal!!Let's also not forget what it took those characters to get that far? Hmm? And most Epic monsters are not gentle. Most fights are win or die. There is no retreat.</blockquote>