Epic Spell building: Ice-9 and Dark Water?

[Fieari]

There are two epic spells I'd like to build that I can't for the life of me figure out how to work out using the current rules, both built on a similar principle and I'm having trouble with both for the same reason.

The spells I want to stat out are Ice-9, and Dark Water. Both involve a spell that self-sustains itself, and spreads out more or less indefinably.

The trouble I have with the epic magic system, is that it wants to have a specific set "area" and "range", outside of which the magic doesn't work. I guess I could spend the DC to make epic spells that effect an entire globe, but that seems like overkill... and in the case of Dark Water, part of it would be the slow creep of the thing, so heros can have the time to try and fight it off. I'm almost thinking "Living Spell" template for Dark Water, except that living spells can't continue to increase in area forever.

Any ideas?

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Without getting into any of the specifics, because I am away from my books, just now... I think it might be easier to use the epic spell to create a critter (in both cases, I think you could get the effect that you are looking for with an ooze), which can then grow and/or split, becaoming as large an effect as desired.

So... First, you' develop the Ice-9 ooze (I know, not really an ooze, but then, living spells are not really oozes, either) and the Dark Water ooze, describe the way that they gain hit dice, get larger, and split into separate creatures... And then create an epic spell to create each one of those critters, using the "Make Permanent" or "Make Instantaneous" multiplier, rather than bothering to make a great big area.

Later
silver

 

[Sejs]

Living Spell template and slap on a version of the black pudding's Split ability?

 

[Nyeshet]

I agree with the living spell and pudding Split combination.

As for Ice 9, recall that the spell - to reach the other side of the world - could simply permiate through it, thus reducing the needed range to a mere 8k miles. Of course, that is still quite a lot, and if it is permiating the world, you will have the problem of all volcanoes and plate techtonics in the world ceasing (as the magma throughout the world, except perhaps in the core, freezes into solid rock).

Of course, you can also presume that magic supercedes science, and so the inner core of the world is not molten at all, in which case there is no problem with innactive volcanoes and plate techtonics (if it even exists). In fact, if the world is hollow that may make an even more interesting story / plot hook, especially if the sudden freeze causes cracks in the crust leading down through the underdark into the surface of the inner hollow world.

 

[Seule]

Of course, that is still quite a lot, and if it is permiating the world, you will have the problem of all volcanoes and plate techtonics in the world ceasing (as the magma throughout the world, except perhaps in the core, freezes into solid rock).

My understanding of Ice-9 is that it's not actually cold, it's just solid at room remperature. Added to the fact that it's by definition a form of water, magma shouldn't be affected. Heck, places with geothermal activity are likely to become the only natural sources of liquid water.

--Seule

 

[Wolfwood2]

There are two epic spells I'd like to build that I can't for the life of me figure out how to work out using the current rules, both built on a similar principle and I'm having trouble with both for the same reason.

There always comes a time when a DM runs into a place where the rules can't cover or are insufficient. (I assume you are a DM, because why would a player want this stuff?)

I'd suggest you work at defining the effects without worrying for the moment about Seeds or spellcraft DCs. How fast do you want this stuff to spread, do you want it to behave as an ooze, how do you want it to react to various game effects? That sort of thing.

Then add a couple of mitigating factors:

Must be cast using the sacred artifact of McGuffin: -X DC
Must be cast during the grand planetary conjunction: -Y DC
Must be cast at the sacred circle of makinitupia: - Z DC

So "A" is the ungodly number of the necessary spellcraft DC without those mitigating factors.

A - X - Y - Z = Spellcraft DC that just so happens to be equal to what your big baddie can manage on a take 10 spellcraft check.

Done!

The important thing is to determine how it will react to actions the players undertake.