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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crowe9107" data-source="post: 276734" data-attributes="member: 2033">I was looking at the epic spell Origin of Species: Achaierai, to get a sense of how to use Origin of Species to create some Half-Dragon/Bullette siege beasts for another thread, and to me, the numbers don't add up. First, the achaierai gets a natural armor bonus, but the armor seed is not included. Next, using their numbers I come up with 151 base DC x 5 for permanency = 455 DC with 145 pts of mitigating factors = 310 DC by my books, not 38. If you apply the mitigating factors BEFORE permanency, 151 - 145 = 6 x 5 = 30. What's the deal here? Epic Spell Reflection, another permanent spell, has base DC 189 - 177 mitigating factors = 12 x5= 60, not 68. This seems to reinforce tha mitigating factors are applied BEFORE permanency, which seems to directly contradict point 3 of the Factors section on p. 89. Even given that you apply mitigating factors before permanency, where is the extra 8 to DC coming from (30vs38, 60vs68)? Am I missing something?Thanks,Carl Rowe</blockquote>