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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Epic Spells: Caster Level instead of skills?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hashmalum" data-source="post: 838820" data-attributes="member: 9450"><p>Hmm. One can create epic spells with the <em>dispel</em> seed to deal with that, but that does nothing for the numerous epic level monsters that have <em>greater dispelling</em> as a spell-like ability. But yes, that is another thread.</p><p>The <em>simulacrum</em> issue is a genuine problem, yes. Switching to caster levels will do nothing to help it, however. Only modifying the ritual casting rules and/or the <em>simulacrum</em> spell itself will do that (as the existing ritual casting rules go by level of the spell slot sacrificed by the additional participants rather than their skill ranks).</p><p></p><p>I would suggest capping the level of the <em>simulacrum</em> and abolishing contributions of lower-level slots to the ritual. Doesn't it seem silly that a mighty spellcaster of legend, casting a spell that breaks the boundaries of conventional magical knowledge, might need the contribution of a 1st-level apprentice, casting a spell just one level removed from a mere cantrip? Yet under the existing epic spell rules, this is a possibility. "Quickly, my apprentice, cast <em>magic missile</em> so I can smite the orcs from the face of the world once and for all with <em>Golin's Grandiose Genocide</em>!"</p><p></p><p>As for the backlash damage, I would strongly suggest a house rule that backlash damage can't be applied to any spell that also has a long casting time; any spell with a casting time more than one round is not intended to be used in combat, and outside of combat the backlash damage is meaningless. In fact, I think I'll add this one to my own house rules right now. (You could also make backlash damage more difficult to recover than normal damage, but that's a less elegant and more rule-heavy solution.)</p><p>Heh. That is sort of amusing.</p><p>Eliminating +Spellcraft items does that just as well. And it doesn't have the problems involved in creating one house rule (substituting caster level for skill ranks) to fix the problems caused by another house rule (+Spellcraft items).</p><p>I don't feel this is a problem. I already made the case for skill-dependent magic in an earlier post. In any case, if your players hate it that much it should be no problem for an epic cleric to pick up a <em>headband of intellect</em> to get those extra skill points. There's also a certain matter of class style involved; to put it simply, wizards are the ones stereotyped as diligent researchers and theoreticians, whereas clerics are not, and epic magic is (theoretically) highly advanced, complicated, and obscure.</p><p>If you'd present some of these additional tweaks you mention, then maybe we could look at the whole revised system and see how it works together. In that case, perhaps the thread needs a new name?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hashmalum, post: 838820, member: 9450"] Hmm. One can create epic spells with the [I]dispel[/I] seed to deal with that, but that does nothing for the numerous epic level monsters that have [I]greater dispelling[/I] as a spell-like ability. But yes, that is another thread. The [I]simulacrum[/I] issue is a genuine problem, yes. Switching to caster levels will do nothing to help it, however. Only modifying the ritual casting rules and/or the [I]simulacrum[/I] spell itself will do that (as the existing ritual casting rules go by level of the spell slot sacrificed by the additional participants rather than their skill ranks). I would suggest capping the level of the [I]simulacrum[/I] and abolishing contributions of lower-level slots to the ritual. Doesn't it seem silly that a mighty spellcaster of legend, casting a spell that breaks the boundaries of conventional magical knowledge, might need the contribution of a 1st-level apprentice, casting a spell just one level removed from a mere cantrip? Yet under the existing epic spell rules, this is a possibility. "Quickly, my apprentice, cast [I]magic missile[/I] so I can smite the orcs from the face of the world once and for all with [I]Golin's Grandiose Genocide[/I]!" As for the backlash damage, I would strongly suggest a house rule that backlash damage can't be applied to any spell that also has a long casting time; any spell with a casting time more than one round is not intended to be used in combat, and outside of combat the backlash damage is meaningless. In fact, I think I'll add this one to my own house rules right now. (You could also make backlash damage more difficult to recover than normal damage, but that's a less elegant and more rule-heavy solution.) Heh. That is sort of amusing. Eliminating +Spellcraft items does that just as well. And it doesn't have the problems involved in creating one house rule (substituting caster level for skill ranks) to fix the problems caused by another house rule (+Spellcraft items). I don't feel this is a problem. I already made the case for skill-dependent magic in an earlier post. In any case, if your players hate it that much it should be no problem for an epic cleric to pick up a [I]headband of intellect[/I] to get those extra skill points. There's also a certain matter of class style involved; to put it simply, wizards are the ones stereotyped as diligent researchers and theoreticians, whereas clerics are not, and epic magic is (theoretically) highly advanced, complicated, and obscure. If you'd present some of these additional tweaks you mention, then maybe we could look at the whole revised system and see how it works together. In that case, perhaps the thread needs a new name? [/QUOTE]
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Epic Spells: Caster Level instead of skills?
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