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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Epic Spells: Caster Level instead of skills?
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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 847643" data-attributes="member: 4722"><p>Okay, I actually looked over the rules I had before doing this (it's been sitting idle for awhile while I worked on more important projects), so I can make some more informed replies now.</p><p></p><p></p><p> I think that's rather subjective - a spell that grants permanent <em>freedom of action</em> on someone is a LOT more valuable than, say, a <em>hellball.</em> You have to look at the overall power and utility of the spell, not just how fast it can be cast and whether it can be cast in combat</p><p></p><p></p><p> Actually, the areas DO line up (except for cylinder, which is 30' high instead of 40 for some reason...). I rather agree that eliminating level-based factors is silly, but it's the only way they could get that system to work. </p><p></p><p> What I did was set the base range/area of effect using the factors, and then increase the range/area by the caster level where applicable. So, for instance, a hellball using these rules would increase in range each level, do more damage/level, etc., though it wouldn't be any bigger than normal unless I included a factor to make it so. (In the case of damage dice, increasing the base damage die increases the level - you can't increase the number of dice, since it increases by level anyway.) </p><p></p><p></p><p> I don't see the problem with a simple 1d6/-1 backlash. Yeah, it comes up quite often, but when you're rending the earth (for example), you SHOULD take some serious damage. If you want to make it really hurt, simply rule that it can't be healed by magical means - you have to rest naturally. </p><p></p><p>I was mistaken earlier, BTW - the max dice is twice the caster level. Still, if your 30th level sorcerer can suck up that much damage (the average is 210, BTW), there's something wrong. You'd have to be rolling at least 7 points per level...</p><p></p><p></p><p> No, that's about average for energy spells - it makes a good base, at any rate. You can then adjust the damage die up or down and adjust the level accordingly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> Hehehe. Yeah, it could at that. I'm rather interested to see what they do in 3.5, since D&DG and ELH are going to be included in the SRD, which means there will likely be an update of some sort.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> I don't know, maybe our world is unique in that regard. Many of the gods in Shtar are ascended mortals of great power, though some mortals are indeed more powerful than some gods. The gods, however, have very powerful mortal allies who would not take kindly to some upstart attempting to assassinate their god. </p><p></p><p>And besides, how many campaign worlds can you name with characters of greater than 60th level? Not many, I'd wager - most groups give up after 30th level or so (look at the Realms - the powerhouses in that world at 30th level or so). If you change epic magic to level-based, increase the spell progression beyond 20th level, and give the gods their proper amount of spells, they will ALWAYS be more powerful than any mortal caster of lesser level, Sure, you'll have the player who outsmarts the god - that's to be expected, after all - but in terms of sheer power, the god will win.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 847643, member: 4722"] Okay, I actually looked over the rules I had before doing this (it's been sitting idle for awhile while I worked on more important projects), so I can make some more informed replies now. I think that's rather subjective - a spell that grants permanent [i]freedom of action[/i] on someone is a LOT more valuable than, say, a [i]hellball.[/i] You have to look at the overall power and utility of the spell, not just how fast it can be cast and whether it can be cast in combat Actually, the areas DO line up (except for cylinder, which is 30' high instead of 40 for some reason...). I rather agree that eliminating level-based factors is silly, but it's the only way they could get that system to work. What I did was set the base range/area of effect using the factors, and then increase the range/area by the caster level where applicable. So, for instance, a hellball using these rules would increase in range each level, do more damage/level, etc., though it wouldn't be any bigger than normal unless I included a factor to make it so. (In the case of damage dice, increasing the base damage die increases the level - you can't increase the number of dice, since it increases by level anyway.) I don't see the problem with a simple 1d6/-1 backlash. Yeah, it comes up quite often, but when you're rending the earth (for example), you SHOULD take some serious damage. If you want to make it really hurt, simply rule that it can't be healed by magical means - you have to rest naturally. I was mistaken earlier, BTW - the max dice is twice the caster level. Still, if your 30th level sorcerer can suck up that much damage (the average is 210, BTW), there's something wrong. You'd have to be rolling at least 7 points per level... No, that's about average for energy spells - it makes a good base, at any rate. You can then adjust the damage die up or down and adjust the level accordingly. Hehehe. Yeah, it could at that. I'm rather interested to see what they do in 3.5, since D&DG and ELH are going to be included in the SRD, which means there will likely be an update of some sort. I don't know, maybe our world is unique in that regard. Many of the gods in Shtar are ascended mortals of great power, though some mortals are indeed more powerful than some gods. The gods, however, have very powerful mortal allies who would not take kindly to some upstart attempting to assassinate their god. And besides, how many campaign worlds can you name with characters of greater than 60th level? Not many, I'd wager - most groups give up after 30th level or so (look at the Realms - the powerhouses in that world at 30th level or so). If you change epic magic to level-based, increase the spell progression beyond 20th level, and give the gods their proper amount of spells, they will ALWAYS be more powerful than any mortal caster of lesser level, Sure, you'll have the player who outsmarts the god - that's to be expected, after all - but in terms of sheer power, the god will win. [/QUOTE]
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