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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 1242800" data-attributes="member: 141">Ok.  First, let's look at hit points.  Instead of quadrupling them, double them and add 100.  This way even the weakest epic creature won't get killed instantly.  And big creatures will still have an impressive number of hit points.Make initiative +10.  (+5 dex, +5 insight)  They get at least +5 from their increased dexterity, let's give them a little more.Armor Class.  25 is too much if the CR is only going up by 10.  A fighter 10 levels higher will have a +10 BAB, probably another +2 on his weapon, and +2 on his strength... let's say +5 dex, +5 insight, +5 natural armor (or deflection for incorporeal creatures, since they shouldn't have natural armor).  This way the AC goes up 15 to challenge the fighter, but the wizard still is not totally outclassed- he still has a chance to hit it with touch attacks.BAB.  Stays the same (cause hit dice haven't changed) but it does get a bonus.  Let's say +5 strength, +10 luck.  Damage gets a +5 strength, +10 luck bonus too.Special attacks: +10 is ok.  In ten levels someone's good saving throw will have increased by +5 (+3 for the poor one) and ability boosts and magical protection will help make up the rest.  +5 of the increase will be due to the epic creature's higher ability score (usually Constitution or Charisma), the other +5 will be a luck bonus.  I would just double the damage done by a special attack.  Do you really want an epic wight to drain 11 levels per hit?Special qualities: A bit heavy.  How about 5/epic and fast healing 5?  Spell resistance might be too low.  A creature that has spell resistance should get a +10 bonus.Spell-like abilities: Should be the same as the bonus to the special attack.  +10, not +5.  Give them greater dispel magic, fly and see invisibility if they don't have them already.  Caster level is their hit dice +10, or their caster level +10, which ever is higher.Saves: Probably too high.  10 levels later, PC wizards will have spells 5 levels higher, and will have higher ability bonuses, but the DCs of their best spells won't have increased by +14.  Give them a +5 insight bonus to saves, and the other +5 comes from higher Constitution, Dexterity or Wisdom.Abilities:  Don't shout at your readers!Skills: They'll get +5 from higher ability scores.  Give a +10 insight bonus, too.  (Characters will have 10 more ranks in their maxed-out skills, higher ability scores, and may have magic items.  A total bonus of +15 should keep the epic creature roughly in line).Feats: Automatic Quicken Spell works on 1st to 3rd level spells- it can be taken three times to work on all spells.  I assume Automatic Quicken Spell-like Ability works the same way?  It wouldn't hurt to note that a monster could take multiples of one or the other.  I suspect spell-like abilities are much more common than spells, and so they would take that feat twice (and so get 1st to 6th level spells quickened.)  Maybe even three times.  Dire Charge is good.  Combative creatures might benefit from Combat Reflexes and Mobility.  Power Attack, Cleave and Great Cleave are also good choices.In other words, say something like this:Feats: Epic creatures choose three of the following feats, provided the meet the feat pre-requisites.  Some feats may be taken more than once (see feat description): Automatic Quicken Spell, Automatic Quicken Spell-like Ability, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dire Charge, Great Cleave, Mobility, Power Attack.So, if you accept all these suggestions, you'd get something like the following:Epic Template:Hit Points: Double hit points and add 100.Initiative: increase by +10 (+5 dex, +5 insight)Speed: Double all movement ratesAC: increase by +15 (+5 dex, +5 insight, +5 natural armor)Base attack: increase attacks and damage by +15 (+5 strength, +10 luck)Full attack: increase attacks and damage by +15 (+5 strength, +10 luck)(1/2 strength bonus for off-hand attacks, 1 1/2 bonus for two-handed attacks)Special attacks: +10 insight bonus on special attacks saving throw, special attacks do double damage.Special qualities: Base creature plus DR 5/epic, spell resistance equals base creature CR plus 20 or use base creature +10 (whichever is greater), fast healing 5, elemental resistance 5 (all elements).Spell-like abilities: +10 epic bonus to caster level, add +10 to Saving Throw DC’s (+5 insight, +5 due to higher ability scores).  Creature gains greater dispel magic, fly and see invisibility at will. Creatures without a caster level use their hit dice +10.Saves: Add 10 to all saves (+5 insight, +5 from ability modifiers)Abilities: Add 10 to all ability scores. (Don't recalculate other values that are based on ability scores).Skills: +15 to all skills (+10 insight, +5 due to ability modifiers)Feats: Creature gains three of the following (some may be taken more than once- see feat descriptions): Automatic Quicken Spell, Automatic Quicken Spell-like Ability, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dire Charge, Great Cleave, Mobility, Power Attack.Challenge Rating: Base creature +10Note regarding special qualities:  If a creature already has Damage Resistance, add epic to what is needed to overcome it, but do not otherwise change it.  If they have fast healing, increase its value by 5.  If they have energy resistance, increase the resistance by 5.</blockquote>

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