Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Epic: Where do I go from here?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 2163566" data-attributes="member: 29252"><p>If dragon is your goal, go Dragon Disciple! Once you reach Dragon Apothesis (and pick up the Half-Dragon template from it) you can use Polymorph Any Object to be permanently changed into a dragon (Same Kingdom (animal, +5), same class (Dragon, +2), and either Same or lower Int(+2) (pick age category based on your Int, and it's the same!), or same Size(+2) (pick age category based on size, and it's the same!). Also, the bonus spell slots from Dragon Disciple are one of the very few ways to get them, although it doesn't increase your caster level. However, that PrC should be saved until after you get caster level 20 (so you have your entire non-epic spell list).</p><p></p><p>As for a spell to turn you into a silver dragon, complete with abilities, Shapechange (at least, the version in the SRD) gives all Ex and Su abilities. You can do it at caster level 18 (you did say you had a sorceror base under the Archmage, and it's a 9th level spell) three (or more, depending on your Cha bonus... but it's a ninth level spell, so that would require a Cha score of at least 28....) times a day for three hours (180 minutes) a day, for a total of nine hours a day. At 20th, that jumps to six times a day for three hours, 20 minutes each time, or 20 hours a day.</p><p></p><p>For an epic spell, that's just a fairly straightforward application of the Transform seed - which is by default permanent. Assuming you want an Adult Silver dragon (pulling stats from the SRD), that's a creature with 22 HD (7 HD above 15, +14 DC), Size Huge (assuming you are Medium, that's two sizes larger than you, +6 DC to spellcraft), Type Dragon (different than yours, +5 DC), ten Ex and Su abilities (Cloudwalking, Alternate Form, Keen Senses, Blindsense, Spell Resistance, Immunities, Frightful Presence, Breath Weapon, Tail Sweep, Crush, +10 DC each, +100 DC) with a base DC of 21; DC =21+14+6+5+100=146, before mitigating factors. If you are okay with taking your sweet time about the transformation, you can drop it down as far as you like with just the extra time; +10 minutes to casting time (-20, casting time: 11 mintues), +63 days to casting time (-126, casting time: 63 days, 11 minutes) would bring the DC to 0.... and would (nominally) make the spell free to research, and essentially gaurunteed to cast (unless you get interrupted).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack Simth, post: 2163566, member: 29252"] If dragon is your goal, go Dragon Disciple! Once you reach Dragon Apothesis (and pick up the Half-Dragon template from it) you can use Polymorph Any Object to be permanently changed into a dragon (Same Kingdom (animal, +5), same class (Dragon, +2), and either Same or lower Int(+2) (pick age category based on your Int, and it's the same!), or same Size(+2) (pick age category based on size, and it's the same!). Also, the bonus spell slots from Dragon Disciple are one of the very few ways to get them, although it doesn't increase your caster level. However, that PrC should be saved until after you get caster level 20 (so you have your entire non-epic spell list). As for a spell to turn you into a silver dragon, complete with abilities, Shapechange (at least, the version in the SRD) gives all Ex and Su abilities. You can do it at caster level 18 (you did say you had a sorceror base under the Archmage, and it's a 9th level spell) three (or more, depending on your Cha bonus... but it's a ninth level spell, so that would require a Cha score of at least 28....) times a day for three hours (180 minutes) a day, for a total of nine hours a day. At 20th, that jumps to six times a day for three hours, 20 minutes each time, or 20 hours a day. For an epic spell, that's just a fairly straightforward application of the Transform seed - which is by default permanent. Assuming you want an Adult Silver dragon (pulling stats from the SRD), that's a creature with 22 HD (7 HD above 15, +14 DC), Size Huge (assuming you are Medium, that's two sizes larger than you, +6 DC to spellcraft), Type Dragon (different than yours, +5 DC), ten Ex and Su abilities (Cloudwalking, Alternate Form, Keen Senses, Blindsense, Spell Resistance, Immunities, Frightful Presence, Breath Weapon, Tail Sweep, Crush, +10 DC each, +100 DC) with a base DC of 21; DC =21+14+6+5+100=146, before mitigating factors. If you are okay with taking your sweet time about the transformation, you can drop it down as far as you like with just the extra time; +10 minutes to casting time (-20, casting time: 11 mintues), +63 days to casting time (-126, casting time: 63 days, 11 minutes) would bring the DC to 0.... and would (nominally) make the spell free to research, and essentially gaurunteed to cast (unless you get interrupted). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Epic: Where do I go from here?
Top