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<blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 361580" data-attributes="member: 4134">That's how I consider CHA works. Unluckily, not everyone does that. Amongst those are several of my DM's, all AD&amp;D dinosaurs who say that it all has to be &quot;roleplayed&quot;. In truth, it's just eliminating CHA as a game mechanic and equaling it with physical beauty (bust measurement). That's people who play characters with CHA 8 who act like the best diplomats.Funny enough, other ability scores aren't treated the same. I never have to &quot;hit the DM&quot; in order to find out whether I hit that enemy. But I have to convince the DM if I want my character succeed in his bluff against that watchman. It's really frustrating to play a character with high CHA (which would have been nice as CON score) and maxed-out diplomacy (+ a synergy bonus + a clan bonus) who is no better in manipulating others than that dwarfen fighter without diplomacy and CHA 11.Low-light Vision and Darkvision are more logical than the old infravision.Yea, AD&amp;D was a pain in the ***. I remember having to ask &quot;high or low&quot; every roll when I started, and I see it with new players in AD&amp;D-games (I have to play with blokes who actually think AD&amp;D is better and thing that the lenghty ability score tables are better than the simple score/bonus system. But there's also that they can't speak english, and there's almost no German Stuff, and they also have bought lots of 2e stuff and don't want it to be useless).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kae'Yoss, post: 361580, member: 4134"] That's how I consider CHA works. Unluckily, not everyone does that. Amongst those are several of my DM's, all AD&D dinosaurs who say that it all has to be "roleplayed". In truth, it's just eliminating CHA as a game mechanic and equaling it with physical beauty (bust measurement). That's people who play characters with CHA 8 who act like the best diplomats. Funny enough, other ability scores aren't treated the same. I never have to "hit the DM" in order to find out whether I hit that enemy. But [b]I[/b] have to convince [b]the DM[/b] if I want my character succeed in his bluff against that watchman. It's really frustrating to play a character with high CHA (which would have been nice as CON score) and maxed-out diplomacy (+ a synergy bonus + a clan bonus) who is no better in manipulating others than that dwarfen fighter without diplomacy and CHA 11. Low-light Vision and Darkvision are more logical than the old infravision. Yea, AD&D was a pain in the ***. I remember having to ask "high or low" every roll when I started, and I see it with new players in AD&D-games (I have to play with blokes who actually think AD&D is better and thing that the lenghty ability score tables are better than the simple score/bonus system. But there's also that they can't speak english, and there's almost no German Stuff, and they also have bought lots of 2e stuff and don't want it to be useless). [/QUOTE]

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