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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 7472447" data-attributes="member: 92511">Having spent...ohhhhh, many years, looking at class structures and boiling things down to my preferences of flavor and abilities...distinct characteristics (for a homebrew setting and, later/now, a homebrew game system) I've come to the following structure.ARCHETYPAL CATEGORYDefault Class:--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 1.--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 2.--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 3-through-ad infinitum.DIFFERENT ARCHTYPE of that Core class.Category: these are the broad strokes. What is it everything that falls under this umbrella does. What is at the CORE of these classes? What is their Prime/important/ability?Default: These are the "Big 4." Can you have a game that is Fighting Guy with no magic, Magic guy with no fighting? Yes! Can you have a game where there is the Fighter guy, the Caster guy, the Skill guy? Sure can. Can you have a game where they are Weapons guy, Spells guy, Guy with both? You betcha. Can you have a game where there are NO classes and everything is just a collection of skills/feats/"powers" or what have you? Yup. Plenty of those.For a "D&D" feeling game, I come down on the insistence for the "Big/Core 4." So, that's what I like/go with every time "organizing classes" comes up.Specific Flavor 1-to-infinity: These are your "Sub-classes." You can literally tease these out to make a "[sub]class" out of any/all types of characters that would fall under the default [smaller/marginally more specific] umbrella and purposely broadly/undefined archetypes of the default class.They have/need a "distinguishing mechanic/feature/power/ability" that the default class doesn't have. There is likely some flavor descriptors. But they essentially just do what the default does...just with a little twist. I think good place to begin with these is to assign importance to the other ability scores to go WITH the Primary score (which naturally, is what the default class uses/relies upon).  Different Archetype: These are classes that are "different enough" from the default/broad concept, but still adhere to the broader structures/framework of the Category's archetype. So, these become classes in/of themselves. I find these to be most easily generated by taking multi-class concepts and assigning them -based on the features and flavor you bake in- to one of the Archetype Categories.To whit...CATEGORY: WARRIORS. What are they? How do they [survive] adventure and/or deal with challenges? Combatants. They don't rely on magic. Use of/expertise with weapons and armor and combat. They're going to rely on Strength.Default: The Fighter.The one who fights. Do they use a weapon? Do they not use magic? They can be a fighter. Flavor and equip as you like.--Fighter: The Knight. This is a Fighter guy with a "Code of Honor" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A well-trained, disciplined kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer heavy armor. Most flavors prefer weapons expertise. But when adventure comes a-callin', they're going to grab their sword and shield and fight. The Strength &/+ Charisma fighter.--Fighter: The Barbarian. This is a Fighter guy with a "Berserker Rage" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A wild, decidedly UNdisciplined kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer lighter armors. Most flavors prefer any weapon that deals a LOT of damage. But when adventure come a-callin', they're going to grab a battle axe or two-handed sword and fight. The Strength &/+ Constitution fighter.--Fighter: The Martial Adept [a non-magical "monk"]. This is a Fighter guy with a "Styles/Maneuvers[martial arts]" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A devout, exacting kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer lighter armors. Most flavors prefer unarmed strikes or limited -but expert training with them- weaponry. But when adventure come a-callin', they're going to grab a quaterstaff [or katana or sais/daggers or...] and fight. The Strength &/+ Wisdom [or Dex. if you prefer] fighter.--Fighter: The _______, etc...The Paladin.A Default Warrior [fighter] with/+ some Cleric features & flavor. Not necessarily a fully "50/50" mix as far as abilities, the Paladin will never be as magical or spells-dependent as a Cleric. But for flavor, they're pretty evenly divided, e.g. the gap between a Paladin and a Warrior/Battle/Defender god's cleric would be slim to unnoticeable in the game world. But a Paladin is a Warrior first and foremost. A Battle-Cleric is still a cleric/priest/devotee of their supernatural source first.(As some have voiced a preference for a more "Warrior-focused" ranger, let's use that as another "Different Archetype" example. My own homebrew game puts them under Rogues because I prefer a more "skills-focused" default for a ranger and think they've been severely confused/maligned from their origins as far as distinct fantasy archetype by having them always be spell-casting warrior guys But for the case of this example, we'll just go with it...)The Ranger.A Default Warrior [fighter] with/+ some Roguish features & flavor. Not necessarily a fully "50/50" mix as far as abilities, the Ranger will never be as stealthy and skillsy as a Thief. But for flavor, they're pretty evenly divided, e.g. the gap between a Ranger and a Outdoorsy Scouty thief/rogue would be slim to unnoticeable in the game world.And so on, through the Rogues (thieves, different types of thieves, swashbucklers, etc...), through the Wizards (mages, different types of mages, witches, etc...), and through the Mystics (clerics, different types of clerics, druids, etc...).I come out, conservatively, with a nicely rounded and expansive-in-its-options game class roster of around 24 class choices, minimum of 12 up to around a decent granulation of about 28...further than that and I find you get start splitting hairs (flavors and abilities) and really becoming redundant. Just about everything from around 20 and up can be handled with backstory flavor/trappings and roleplaying.One can, of course, keep going with setting-specific classes, race-specific classes, culture-specific classes, and so on as far as anyone could/would want.But I think, after years and years and years, I'm come to the conclusion 16-24 is probably my personal proverbial "sweet spot."[/sub]</blockquote>

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