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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5350297" data-attributes="member: 87792">Nothing like enough.&nbsp; I need numbers not just random names.&nbsp; In order to back things up, I need the information you actually need on your character sheet.&nbsp; Your saves (I can do those with any starting class I know at all) and the percentage chance to climb walls, pick pockets, open locks, read languages, etc.&nbsp; Otherwise you don't have your character sheet.&nbsp;&nbsp;And I'll match that with 4e.&nbsp;&nbsp;Exactly.&nbsp; You put a massive amount of time and work into the game.&nbsp; Of course it's easier for you.&nbsp; But this is not doable by most people without spell books.&nbsp;&nbsp;So what you are saying is that I won't have a character that will be the envy of the Character Optimisation forum?&nbsp; Feat progression is limited - 4e isn't 3e where most of the good feats have pre-requisites of other feats.&nbsp; And power progression really isn't an issue.&nbsp; Just pick a power that fits at each level from the good list.&nbsp; And the character in question is my Warlord - a slightly off-beat build (a cold blooded bravura warlord who waits before acting) and if not the most powerful PC in the party, he's close and the most powerful is a nice custom crafted hybrid with an absurd static damage modifier (and as strong as anything on the Character Optimisation forums).&nbsp;&nbsp;Are you trying to be insulting?&nbsp; If he was a pregen it was only in that I didn't count the time to write his background down.&nbsp;&nbsp;Almost certainly.&nbsp; But this doesn't mean that the parts someone needs to interface with are any bigger.&nbsp; In 1e/2e with splatbooks, you have a massive number of first level wizard spells.&nbsp; In 4e you have many more first level powers - but fewer first level wizard powers.&nbsp; And what they do is much more transparent.&nbsp; Even if there were the same number, the categorisation reduces the overload.&nbsp;&nbsp;I think what you forget is how clunky, unwieldy, and downright bloated 1e itself was.&nbsp; I can do all a 4e character's defensive numbers in my head.&nbsp; 1e, you ducked my challenge.&nbsp; Do a 1e character's saving throws without the book.&nbsp; For any class.&nbsp; And the level of the thief's starting skills.&nbsp;&nbsp;Feats, yes.&nbsp; Particularly the fool conditional damage modifiers.&nbsp;&nbsp;Powers should have less variation but be more distinct...&nbsp;&nbsp;So?&nbsp; Enough people will want enough parts of it.&nbsp;&nbsp;And this is a good plan.&nbsp;&nbsp;The popularity of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons tells me that people will want all the options possible.&nbsp; What was wrong with D&amp;D that you needed AD&amp;D?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5350297, member: 87792"] Nothing like enough. I need numbers not just random names. In order to back things up, I need the information you actually need on your character sheet. Your saves (I can do those with any starting class I know at all) and the percentage chance to climb walls, pick pockets, open locks, read languages, etc. Otherwise you don't have your character sheet. And I'll match that with 4e. Exactly. You put a [I]massive[/I] amount of time and work into the game. Of course it's easier for you. But this is not doable by most people without spell books. So what you are saying is that I won't have a character that will be the envy of the Character Optimisation forum? Feat progression is limited - 4e isn't 3e where most of the good feats have pre-requisites of other feats. And power progression really isn't an issue. Just pick a power that fits at each level from the good list. And the character in question is my Warlord - a slightly off-beat build (a cold blooded bravura warlord who waits before acting) and if not the most powerful PC in the party, he's close and the most powerful is a nice custom crafted hybrid with an absurd static damage modifier (and as strong as anything on the Character Optimisation forums). Are you trying to be insulting? If he was a pregen it was only in that I didn't count the time to write his background down. Almost certainly. But this doesn't mean that the parts someone needs to interface with are any bigger. In 1e/2e with splatbooks, you have a massive number of first level wizard spells. In 4e you have many more first level powers - but fewer first level [I]wizard[/I] powers. And what they do is much more transparent. Even if there were the same number, the categorisation reduces the overload. I think what you forget is how clunky, unwieldy, and downright bloated 1e itself was. I can do all a 4e character's defensive numbers in my head. 1e, you ducked my challenge. Do a 1e character's saving throws without the book. For any class. And the level of the thief's starting skills. Feats, yes. Particularly the fool conditional damage modifiers. Powers should have less variation but be more distinct... So? Enough people will want enough parts of it. And this is a good plan. The popularity of [I]Advanced[/I] Dungeons and Dragons tells me that people will want all the options possible. What was wrong with D&D that you needed [I]A[/I]D&D? [/QUOTE]

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