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<blockquote data-quote="karolusb" data-source="post: 5346787" data-attributes="member: 83359">I can see what you are saying about play, but I am not sure the simplicity always needs to happen in play.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Clerics boil down to 1 choice.&nbsp; Storm or Sun (personally sun seems noteworthily better to me, but most people I have seen play and prefer storm).&nbsp; They are a bit simpler than thieves to make.&nbsp; &nbsp;By comparison the Character builder cleric has 10 at will choices, including some strength and wisdom choices, a ranged weapon attack, melee powers, implement powers.&nbsp; 12 encounter choicese with a similar spread of effects, many rider effects, 4 non-damaging choices.&nbsp; Healers Mercy?&nbsp;Lots of choices can be overwhelming, and many of those choices in existing materials are traps.&nbsp; Essentials gives two very simple builds with few choices, but all of those choices are rock solid.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;I can't think of any edition of D&amp;D where wizards were truly simple, 4E is as close as it gets.&nbsp; Even so the essentials wizard gives a pretty narrow array of choices, with nothing that seems like a trap to me (having only played essentials at 1st level of course).&nbsp; If you take the essentials wizard, and open it to the full spectrum of choices it is by no means simpler, but then you made a choice towards complexity.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="karolusb, post: 5346787, member: 83359"] I can see what you are saying about play, but I am not sure the simplicity always needs to happen in play. Clerics boil down to 1 choice. Storm or Sun (personally sun seems noteworthily better to me, but most people I have seen play and prefer storm). They are a bit simpler than thieves to make. By comparison the Character builder cleric has 10 at will choices, including some strength and wisdom choices, a ranged weapon attack, melee powers, implement powers. 12 encounter choicese with a similar spread of effects, many rider effects, 4 non-damaging choices. Healers Mercy? Lots of choices can be overwhelming, and many of those choices in existing materials are traps. Essentials gives two very simple builds with few choices, but all of those choices are rock solid. I can't think of any edition of D&D where wizards were truly simple, 4E is as close as it gets. Even so the essentials wizard gives a pretty narrow array of choices, with nothing that seems like a trap to me (having only played essentials at 1st level of course). If you take the essentials wizard, and open it to the full spectrum of choices it is by no means simpler, but then you made a choice towards complexity. [/QUOTE]

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