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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 5756873" data-attributes="member: 710">Why not focus on what Laylander is looking for? He would like to see  options for doing this in D&D 4. Maybe it's not the best system to  do it, but sending him to a different system doesn't seem to be  answering the question: "How can I do this with D&D 4?"Via house rules, there are. Via supplements or DDI articles - I don't think so.Here is my take (copy & pasted from somewhere else I posted it, adjust to taste or throw into garbage as you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> )Non-Adventuring SkillsNon-Adventuring skills are skills not generally used by regular adventurers, but are used in the life of the common folk in villages and cities. These skills work similar in regards to skill checks and skill challenge as normal skills, but are not learned during adventuring.Upon character creation, a character may pick two skills that represent his upbringing and training before he became an adventurer.Perform [Charisma] Various Subskills like Drums, Lute, Oratory, Singing)Craft [Intelligence] (Various Subskills, like Armorsmithing, Bowmaking, Basketweaving, )Profession [Wisdom] (Various Subskills like Farmer, Pharmacist)You treat these skills as trained (a +5 modifier to the skill). These skills are not learned normally. During downtime, you may choose to either use these skills to earn additional money, or to train your non-adventuring skills.Training Non-Adventuring SkillsTo gain a new skill, or to gain Skill Focus (additional +3 modifier to the skill) in a trained non-adventuring skill skill, you must train. This works similar to a skill challenge. Each check represents one week of training, and you must succeed 4 times before gaining 3 failures. If you gain 3 failures, you lose all previous successes and failures and must start again.A trainer is useful to improve your skill. Finding and paying the appropriate trainer costs you money worth equal to 1/20th of a magical item of your level per week. If you have a trainer, the DC for all skill checks is easy. If you do not have a trainer, use the moderate DCs instead. If you succeed on a Hard check, you may roll a second check. A failure does not count towards the challenge, but a success negates a previously made failure, or, if no such failure occured or is remaining, grants an additional success.Earning Money during downtimeTo earn money, you must make skill Check appropriate for your level. For each week of downtime, you gain money depending on the DC you beat.Easy DC: worth equivalant to 1/30th of a magical item of your level.Moderate DC: worth 1/20th of a magical item of your level.High DC: worth 1/10th of a magical item of your level.Failure: You earn no money.You must be in a settlement large enough to accomandate your level of skill, as otherwise you will not find anyone that is able to pay you for your goods or services.If it's insufficient for your level, use the highest level accomandated by the city instead for both DC and earnings.Village (20-50): Up to Level 5Town (51 to 500 inhabitants) or Fantastic Village (In the Underdark, Feywild or Shadowfell): Up to Level 10City (501 to 2,500 inhabitants) or Fantastic Town: Up to Level 15Metropolis (2,501+ inhabitants) or Fantastic City: Up to Level 20Fantastic Metropolis (City of Brass, Sigil and similar examples): Up to Level 30Using Non-Adventuring SkillsYou may also use these skills in other situations then earning money. Sometimes you may be allowed to use a non-adventuring skill in place of an adventuring skill. You may generally use this option only once between extended rests.PerformGiven an appropriate situation, you may use Perform to impress other people, using Perform instead of Diplomacy. You may also use Perform to distract or seduce people, in place (or taking a similar effect as) Bluff, Stealth or Thievery, and help others on similar tasks. For example, a character may use his Perform (Oratory) skill to distract a group of guards telling an entertaining story, while another character picks a lock or pick-pockets an item. Rarely, a Perform check may be appropriate to replace a history or streetwise check (songs and poetry sometimes refer to historical or mythical figures as well as local individuals).ProfessionYou may use your Profession skills in appropriate settings in place of a Diplomacy, Insight or Knowledge checks to interact with people with similar Professions, or where your Profession is particularly relevant. Some Professsions might also be associated with crafting related tasks, and in this case, you may use Profession like Craft to create items (see below). For example, a Pharmacists may be able to create healing potions and poisons.CraftYou can craft items, magical and non-magical as appropriate to the Craft skill (Bowmaking for a bow or an arrow, a tailor for a magical cloth armor, and so on). When you actively craft specific items, you do not need to accomandate the limitations of your settlement, as you are not actively trying to sell your goods.Crafting Non-Magical ItemsYou may craft non-magical items as appropriate to your Craft skill. This requires raw materials equal to 1/5th their cost, and you must generate a worth of your work equal to the worth of the item. Crafting Magical ItemsYou may also craft magical items that fit your Craft skill, even if you do not have the Ritual Caster feat and the Enchant Magic Item or Brew Potion Ritual. This requires particularly potent magical components, and possibly magically infused tools. Crafting magical items in this manner is a very ardeous and challenging process, far more difficult and time-consuming than using the appropriate ritual. But a master artisan can achieve items of worth and power that a normal ritual can achieve.Each month of work allows you to make one check against a moderate DC and requires magical components equal to 1/15th of the items value. For consumable items, each check requires only one day of work. If a check result beats even a hard DC, you can roll a second time, a failure on the second check does not count as a failure towards the crafting challenge, while a success can be used to negate a previous failure, or, if no such failure has occured yet, gain another success.To create a common magical item, you must succeed 6 checks before 3 failures, to craft a uncommon item, you must succeed 8 checks before 3 failures. To create a a very rare item, you must succeed 12 checks before 3 failures. If you accrue the 3 failures before the required successes, you must start again, losing all previous successes, and losing half of the material components used so far in the process.Magic item crafting is a fickle and particular process - If you fail making a uncommon item, you may not try again until you have gained a level or improved your training in the skill. If you fail making a rare item, you may never try to create the item again in this manner.Crafting GroupsRegardless of whether you create a magical or a non-magical item, a group of characters may cooperate to craft items. For magical item crafting, you need the materials for each character and week. If the group fails crafting a magical item, the restricitions on retrying apply to each member of the group.</blockquote>

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