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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Talaysen" data-source="post: 887051" data-attributes="member: 340">Hey all -There's been a discussion lately on one of the pagan lists I'm on regarding magical ethics, and for some reason I started thinking of D&D.In most neopagan traditions, it is considered unethical to use magic to harm someone or control their thoughts/actions. This is a broad law and open to interpretation, but (for example) love spells in the traditional sense (i.e. I will make you love me) are taboo because of it. Well, mileage varies, obviously, and this isn't the case with all traditions - but most of my friends follow that standard. If "charm person" existed in the real world they almost certainly wouldn't use it, nor would they ever use "magic missile".That said, this concept is a relatively new one, and far from universal. In societies in which magic is a part of everyday life, spells that harm others are very common. In an anthropology class a couple years ago, my prof actually touched upon an account of a village shaman trying to use a spell to slaughter *all the children* of a rival village in revenge for some insult or offensive act. It is reasonable to assume that ancient and medieval Western spellcasters would have laughed at any ethical guidelines resembling the ones common to neopaganism today.On the other hand, personal morality may also apply. For example, I am not affiliated with any pagan traditions containing guidelines similar to what I've described, but I still avoid harmful or controlling spells out of a sense of personal morality. I personally believe too strongly in the sanctity of free will and sentient life.All right, this has gone far enough into real-world practice, but I thought I'd set this up with a few examples from our planet's cultures. Within the vast continuum of D&D games, I can think of very few examples of magical ethics. In fact, the only thing that springs immediately to mind is the system described and established in Sepulchrave's Wyre game - wizards are barred from participating in political conflicts (i.e. wars), but only to a point; wizards may not summon extraplanars into Wyre or send them therein once summoned elsewhere; wizards may not attack each other; etc. (I may be misremembering some of this.) And, really, this is more of a legal code than anything else - there is no Grand Order of Wizards saying that it is ETHICALLY wrong to summon extraplanars; only the Church of Oronthon (which governs divine, not arcane magic, really) has said anything on the subject, and very little at that, from what we've seen. (It is of course possible that there are vast libraries on the subject in Sepulchrave's world and it just hasn't come up that often.)So here are the questions I ask you all to ponder:- How should ethics and morality inform the use of magic on the part of D&D characters? Is it, for example, right for a chaotic good sorcerer to compel someone to do their bidding through magic, or a lawful good character to kill someone through magic?- Who would determine these moral and ethical guidelines? Would the guidelines simply be traditional, or would they come from some magical order?- Would the guidelines be imposed somehow by the gods/the universe, leading to karmic retribution for failure to follow them? Or would they be followed out of fear, with no actual retribution involved? (In the latter case, a whole realm of superstition could be established, with spellcasters blaming every spot of bad luck on that one little charm spell they secretly cast last week...)I'm sure there are other questions to be asked here, and equally sure that they will be asked as this thread progresses. I just figured this was a subject worth exploring.One thing worth noting - please, let's not turn this into a debate on the validity or morality of real-world magical traditions. I posted my examples as examples, nothing more. I don't question your beliefs, you don't question mine, and we're all happier for it. Just thought I'd better say it up front.</blockquote>

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