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Evaluating the warlord-y Fighter
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6488014" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Pretty good take-down! My current character in my 4e game is a warlord, so I've been peering at the 5e presentation of it with a peery eye as well, and see a lot of the same things you do. </p><p></p><p>That said, I think I'm more comfortable with the costs. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Like you point out, I think this is intentional - "cool moves" are meant to stand out in 5e, which means your "normal moves" (cantrips and weapon attacks) need to be used. In 4e, you did something special with every attack. In 5e, you might just hit it with your sword one round, and that's OK -- intentional, even, since it keeps the game flowing fast and highlights the special moves a little more dramatically. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> I think what you characterize as "room to breathe," I might argue is "fiddly bits that had no functional effect." There's a lot of chaff in 100 powers, especially when a given player will only see 10% or so of them. Some of the granular detail is lost in 5e, because the powers aren't as fine-grained, but I think that's still intentional and has an awesome secondary effect (a faster and more dramatic game). </p><p></p><p>The level thing is likewise in fitting with 5e's pacing -- a lot of classes don't get their defining characteristic until a later level. You can't channel divinity as a 1st-level cleric or metamagic as a 1st-level sorcerer. Classes have a few "training levels," including the 5e version of the warlord. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The nova potential comes in the form of extra attacks -- and thus extra chances to use Superiority Dice. A 5th-level fighter can have 4 attacks in a round, and so could easily move their entire party by using Maneuvering Attack on each hit, or give up each of those attacks to party members in a Commander's Strike, or combine the Distracting Strike with a few Commander's Strike or whatever. 5e's "it's OK to make basic attacks" philosophy crops up after that, but since monsters only survive about 3 rounds anyway...those are encounter-dominating effects. </p><p></p><p>It's true that a 5e warlord can't really replace a 5e cleric or a 5e bard (in general), though in 5e, a few healing potions do go a long way toward <em>anyone</em> serving as the party healer in a pinch. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Eh. I'm not sure you need much more than giving folks advantage on attacks, giving them attacks, and protecting them, when you want to be a good Leader. The 5e warlord is no healbot, and if that's what you want out of your warlord, you'd be better off going 5e bard. In terms of enhancing the party's performance, the 5e battle master does the job pretty well. 4e had more granularity and variety, but it is, IMXP, a lot of distinction without much of a difference. I'd easily give up 3-5 of my 4e warlord's attack powers for the ability to make a 4 critters/milestone grant 5e's version of advantage, personally. Fewer, bigger effects.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6488014, member: 2067"] Pretty good take-down! My current character in my 4e game is a warlord, so I've been peering at the 5e presentation of it with a peery eye as well, and see a lot of the same things you do. That said, I think I'm more comfortable with the costs. Like you point out, I think this is intentional - "cool moves" are meant to stand out in 5e, which means your "normal moves" (cantrips and weapon attacks) need to be used. In 4e, you did something special with every attack. In 5e, you might just hit it with your sword one round, and that's OK -- intentional, even, since it keeps the game flowing fast and highlights the special moves a little more dramatically. I think what you characterize as "room to breathe," I might argue is "fiddly bits that had no functional effect." There's a lot of chaff in 100 powers, especially when a given player will only see 10% or so of them. Some of the granular detail is lost in 5e, because the powers aren't as fine-grained, but I think that's still intentional and has an awesome secondary effect (a faster and more dramatic game). The level thing is likewise in fitting with 5e's pacing -- a lot of classes don't get their defining characteristic until a later level. You can't channel divinity as a 1st-level cleric or metamagic as a 1st-level sorcerer. Classes have a few "training levels," including the 5e version of the warlord. The nova potential comes in the form of extra attacks -- and thus extra chances to use Superiority Dice. A 5th-level fighter can have 4 attacks in a round, and so could easily move their entire party by using Maneuvering Attack on each hit, or give up each of those attacks to party members in a Commander's Strike, or combine the Distracting Strike with a few Commander's Strike or whatever. 5e's "it's OK to make basic attacks" philosophy crops up after that, but since monsters only survive about 3 rounds anyway...those are encounter-dominating effects. It's true that a 5e warlord can't really replace a 5e cleric or a 5e bard (in general), though in 5e, a few healing potions do go a long way toward [I]anyone[/I] serving as the party healer in a pinch. Eh. I'm not sure you need much more than giving folks advantage on attacks, giving them attacks, and protecting them, when you want to be a good Leader. The 5e warlord is no healbot, and if that's what you want out of your warlord, you'd be better off going 5e bard. In terms of enhancing the party's performance, the 5e battle master does the job pretty well. 4e had more granularity and variety, but it is, IMXP, a lot of distinction without much of a difference. I'd easily give up 3-5 of my 4e warlord's attack powers for the ability to make a 4 critters/milestone grant 5e's version of advantage, personally. Fewer, bigger effects. [/QUOTE]
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