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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Redclaw" data-source="post: 4175202" data-attributes="member: 53791">First of all, I'm playing a human character here, so the decision doesn't really affect me in any way.  That being said, I like good intellectual discussions, so I want to weigh in again.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> I have a few reasons for liking the PHB/RPGA version: <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/1.gif"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":1:" title="One    :1:" data-shortname=":1:" /> Changing the order would effectively nerf the racial modifiers.  The reason for having those midifiers, IMHO, is to give each race a unique spot in the makeup of the realm.  Having dextrous elves that are more graceful than humans, and sturdy dwarves who can take a hit better, just makes sense to me.  Any rule that makes it easy for the dwarf to be just as nimble as the elf is an issue.  Imagine Gimli climbing up the oliphant and sliding down its trunk... it just doesn't work. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/2.gif"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":2:" title="Two    :2:" data-shortname=":2:" /> The math just doesn't work the way it should.  Since most races get a +2 bonus to one ability and a -2 penalty to another, the would wind up with the same 28 points that a human has when applying the alternate rules (ie. +2 dex gives me 30 points, but -2 con brings me back to 28.) <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/3.gif"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":3:" title="Three    :3:" data-shortname=":3:" /> Despite the bonuses, there's still plenty of opportunity for characters to defy the system.  You can still have a dwarf with a 16 dex, it'll just cost more, and make him less effective in other areas.  On the other hand, why would you want to make a dwarf with a 16 dex?  That's just not in tune with their society.   <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/4.gif"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":4:" title="Four    :4:" data-shortname=":4:" /> I understand the objection about the poor half-orc, but at the same time it isn't really an advantage.  That half orc has the advantage of being able to be stronger for fewer points than the elf.  Each race has its own strengths and weaknesses, and most members of those races would be trained in ways to use their strengths and minimize the impact of their weaknesses.  That's why dwarves tend toward  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee    :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> , shields and heavy armor, while elves tend toward light armor and  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/r.gif"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":ranged:" title="Ranged    :ranged:" data-shortname=":ranged:" /> .  It does encourage a bit of min/maxing, but I see it more as encouraging players to suit their characters to their chosen race.  Without it, the race is just a cosmetic choice.  So, those are just a few thoughts.  I'm fine either way.   Plus I got to try out the new smilies.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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