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<blockquote data-quote="BlackFalconKY" data-source="post: 1891681" data-attributes="member: 1890">Ongoing Gestalt - With Tips!Hey all,I've been running a gestalt game since I first read about the idea in Unearthed Arcana.&nbsp; I really can't imagine going back to the &quot;core&quot; rules after the fun we've had with gestalt.&nbsp; The campaign has 6 active characters, and the players absolutely love the gestalt rules.&nbsp; I've found, as a DM, that this gives players much more opportunity to experiment with different classes and game ideas.&nbsp; My players have &quot;grown&quot; by leaps and bounds just because they are more likely to step out of the box and do something new with gestalt rules.We made several adjustments for this campaign.&nbsp; First, we get feats on every odd level (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.) instead of every three.&nbsp; With several hundred feats available in the campaign, you just couldn't play with most of the rules.&nbsp; Don't forget to adjust monsters for the same!&nbsp; Also, I found that gestalt rules &quot;broke&quot; rather quickly along the saving throw lines.&nbsp; Before long nothing, PC or monster, could fail a saving throw.&nbsp; Spellcasters were crippled unless they cast spells with no saves.&nbsp; So, we adopted a new save progression.&nbsp; Every character chooses, at level 1, two good save progressions and one bad.&nbsp; This stays with the character throughout the campaign.&nbsp; To balance, all monsters and NPCs do the same.&nbsp; Sounds like a lot of adjusting, but it is simple math (good save is half HD +2 and bad save is 1/3 HD).&nbsp; Even the character playing the monk (who kind of got hosed by losing a good progression) has found the new system vastly superior when using gestalt.&nbsp; Without this tweak, I had 10th-level characters that just couldn't fail a save without rolling a 1.&nbsp; We have been using level adjusted races as well.&nbsp; Here's how we do it.&nbsp; A powerful race has either half or full level cost.&nbsp; If it has half cost, you can take a PC class level with each of your &quot;race&quot; levels.&nbsp; If it has a full cost, you cannot.&nbsp; For example, in our campaign, the half-dragon template costs 5 half-levels.&nbsp; So, you could be a 5th-level fighter half-dragon.&nbsp; At level 6, you can now start taking two levels (such as fighter and rogue) at the same time.&nbsp; &nbsp; If you wanted to play something that is Large by default, such as minotaur, it costs 8 full levels.&nbsp; Until level 9, you cannot take anything but minotaur levels.&nbsp; However, at level 9, you can take two levels like any other gestalt character (such a barbarian and ranger).&nbsp; All of this has worked tremendously well.&nbsp; We are absolutely loving this campaign and will likely never play non-gestalt again.&nbsp; With so much material published, this really puts more options in the players' hands.&nbsp; I have found that players are gravitating toward the half-celestial template (costs 6 half-levels), and I think it is undervalued.&nbsp; I'd recommend anyone else make it a more expensive race to start with.As far as what power level the characters can handle, we just finished a big adventure.&nbsp; The climatic battle was with a kaiju monitor lizard (using template from Dragon Magazine 289).&nbsp; Basically, this creature was Godzilla.&nbsp; With a CR of 17 and 804 hit points, dealing 50 to 60 hit points of damage per hit, it was brought down by a gestalt party of 5 and 2 cohorts, with the death of one PC and one NPC (later raised); average party level 12.&nbsp; Anyway, I highly recommend gestalt to anyone who has experience with D&amp;D.&nbsp; It is a lot harder to teach to new folks, however.&nbsp; I really recommend experience players for it.&nbsp; Black Falcon</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BlackFalconKY, post: 1891681, member: 1890"] [b]Ongoing Gestalt - With Tips![/b] Hey all, I've been running a gestalt game since I first read about the idea in Unearthed Arcana. I really can't imagine going back to the "core" rules after the fun we've had with gestalt. The campaign has 6 active characters, and the players absolutely love the gestalt rules. I've found, as a DM, that this gives players much more opportunity to experiment with different classes and game ideas. My players have "grown" by leaps and bounds just because they are more likely to step out of the box and do something new with gestalt rules. We made several adjustments for this campaign. First, we get feats on every odd level (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.) instead of every three. With several hundred feats available in the campaign, you just couldn't play with most of the rules. Don't forget to adjust monsters for the same! Also, I found that gestalt rules "broke" rather quickly along the saving throw lines. Before long nothing, PC or monster, could fail a saving throw. Spellcasters were crippled unless they cast spells with no saves. So, we adopted a new save progression. Every character chooses, at level 1, two good save progressions and one bad. This stays with the character throughout the campaign. To balance, all monsters and NPCs do the same. Sounds like a lot of adjusting, but it is simple math (good save is half HD +2 and bad save is 1/3 HD). Even the character playing the monk (who kind of got hosed by losing a good progression) has found the new system vastly superior when using gestalt. Without this tweak, I had 10th-level characters that just couldn't fail a save without rolling a 1. We have been using level adjusted races as well. Here's how we do it. A powerful race has either half or full level cost. If it has half cost, you can take a PC class level with each of your "race" levels. If it has a full cost, you cannot. For example, in our campaign, the half-dragon template costs 5 half-levels. So, you could be a 5th-level fighter half-dragon. At level 6, you can now start taking two levels (such as fighter and rogue) at the same time. If you wanted to play something that is Large by default, such as minotaur, it costs 8 full levels. Until level 9, you cannot take anything but minotaur levels. However, at level 9, you can take two levels like any other gestalt character (such a barbarian and ranger). All of this has worked tremendously well. We are absolutely loving this campaign and will likely never play non-gestalt again. With so much material published, this really puts more options in the players' hands. I have found that players are gravitating toward the half-celestial template (costs 6 half-levels), and I think it is undervalued. I'd recommend anyone else make it a more expensive race to start with. As far as what power level the characters can handle, we just finished a big adventure. The climatic battle was with a kaiju monitor lizard (using template from Dragon Magazine 289). Basically, this creature was Godzilla. With a CR of 17 and 804 hit points, dealing 50 to 60 hit points of damage per hit, it was brought down by a gestalt party of 5 and 2 cohorts, with the death of one PC and one NPC (later raised); average party level 12. Anyway, I highly recommend gestalt to anyone who has experience with D&D. It is a lot harder to teach to new folks, however. I really recommend experience players for it. Black Falcon [/QUOTE]

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