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Everybody Cheats?
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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 7751065" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>I am sorry, but that comes across as a little obtuse.</p><p></p><p>YOU were the one who said games had statements not to cheat. Those games popped into existence from the quantum vacuum, or were they designed by somebody? Come on.</p><p></p><p>However, I was speaking in general - that the words written by a designer who has never met your players cannot be just trusted. Designers have implicit assumptions about play. Is that set of assumptions going to fit *ALL* players? Unlikely. It then follows that their statements about the system working, as written, is apt to be incorrect for some. Designers are (to date) human beings. Since when do human beings make flawless things?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For some. "Works" is subjective, as already noted earlier in the thread.</p><p></p><p>Dogs in the Vineyard, for example - I have played one session, and watched several others. Not a one of the "worked" in any meaningful sense. The players took so much time with dice and bidding that one conversation took 3 hours to resolve. I know some folks swear by the game, but I know others swear at it. And that's really the point I'm making here.</p><p></p><p>One size does not fit all. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When there are folks in the discussion saying that a technique has bad results, irrespective of the social contract, then the social contract isn't really the question of the moment.</p><p></p><p>I daresay, when someone is telling me that a game just works if played as written, all the time, for everyone, again, I don't think social contracts are the main question at hand.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 7751065, member: 177"] I am sorry, but that comes across as a little obtuse. YOU were the one who said games had statements not to cheat. Those games popped into existence from the quantum vacuum, or were they designed by somebody? Come on. However, I was speaking in general - that the words written by a designer who has never met your players cannot be just trusted. Designers have implicit assumptions about play. Is that set of assumptions going to fit *ALL* players? Unlikely. It then follows that their statements about the system working, as written, is apt to be incorrect for some. Designers are (to date) human beings. Since when do human beings make flawless things? For some. "Works" is subjective, as already noted earlier in the thread. Dogs in the Vineyard, for example - I have played one session, and watched several others. Not a one of the "worked" in any meaningful sense. The players took so much time with dice and bidding that one conversation took 3 hours to resolve. I know some folks swear by the game, but I know others swear at it. And that's really the point I'm making here. One size does not fit all. When there are folks in the discussion saying that a technique has bad results, irrespective of the social contract, then the social contract isn't really the question of the moment. I daresay, when someone is telling me that a game just works if played as written, all the time, for everyone, again, I don't think social contracts are the main question at hand. [/QUOTE]
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