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Everybody Cheats?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7754844" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I was going to post that what Lanefan describes seems rather pathological to me, and then saw Tony Vargas's post doing the work for me!</p><p></p><p>Even if one pulls back from words like "pathological" and "degenerate case", there are <em>so many</em> assumptions built into what Lanefan describes - about how the GM handles scene framing, about how players decide what PCs to roll up, about how the group handles party formation, about how treasure works in the game, about how "story continuity" works - that it's not worth trying to unpack them all. I'll just say that I think none of the assumptions being made there holds at my table, <em>except</em> for the assumption about treasure, which did hold in one of our old RM campaigns set in GH.</p><p></p><p>In 4e a player who starts a new character is expected to keep improving his/her technical play, however. (At least I think that is the default.) That is to say, s/he wouldn't be expected to emulate the lack of familiarity with the power suite, the way pacing works (especially in combat), etc that is typical of a new 4e player.</p><p></p><p>Whereas I can easily imagine some 2nd ed AD&D tables complaining that an experienced player who uses that knowledge to play a 1st level PC effectively (eg in terms of thinking through spell load out, or combat tactics, or dungeoneering methods) is cheating or metagaming.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Saw the follow-ups:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Tony Vargas identifies some ways of departing from the play assumptions that underpin the example. Of course there are many ways that are not GM-side but player-side or group side.</p><p></p><p>But the most obvious one is - why would a table of RPGers continue to play with an unpleasant person who wrecks the game? Or, if we want to put it in less social terms - what makes the player of the surviving PC think that the ongoing story is going to be about <em>his</em> PC? As opposed to the (new) party that the other players roll up, who may or may not wish to welcome a stranger into their midst, but probably not the evil cleric whose reputation precedes him.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7754844, member: 42582"] I was going to post that what Lanefan describes seems rather pathological to me, and then saw Tony Vargas's post doing the work for me! Even if one pulls back from words like "pathological" and "degenerate case", there are [I]so many[/I] assumptions built into what Lanefan describes - about how the GM handles scene framing, about how players decide what PCs to roll up, about how the group handles party formation, about how treasure works in the game, about how "story continuity" works - that it's not worth trying to unpack them all. I'll just say that I think none of the assumptions being made there holds at my table, [I]except[/I] for the assumption about treasure, which did hold in one of our old RM campaigns set in GH. In 4e a player who starts a new character is expected to keep improving his/her technical play, however. (At least I think that is the default.) That is to say, s/he wouldn't be expected to emulate the lack of familiarity with the power suite, the way pacing works (especially in combat), etc that is typical of a new 4e player. Whereas I can easily imagine some 2nd ed AD&D tables complaining that an experienced player who uses that knowledge to play a 1st level PC effectively (eg in terms of thinking through spell load out, or combat tactics, or dungeoneering methods) is cheating or metagaming. EDIT: Saw the follow-ups: Tony Vargas identifies some ways of departing from the play assumptions that underpin the example. Of course there are many ways that are not GM-side but player-side or group side. But the most obvious one is - why would a table of RPGers continue to play with an unpleasant person who wrecks the game? Or, if we want to put it in less social terms - what makes the player of the surviving PC think that the ongoing story is going to be about [I]his[/I] PC? As opposed to the (new) party that the other players roll up, who may or may not wish to welcome a stranger into their midst, but probably not the evil cleric whose reputation precedes him. [/QUOTE]
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