Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Everybody's got to have a Patron deity. Where did it come from?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 7157287" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>@<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6778044" target="_blank">Ilbranteloth</a></u></strong></em>,</p><p></p><p>Your post suggests how formative D&D becomes more and more fixated on polytheism. Even so, its increase is ad hoc, conflictive, incomplete, and inconsistent.</p><p></p><p>With regard to the 1e Cleric class, the mentions of ‘a deity or deities’ included the possibility of monotheistic campaign settings that only have one deity.</p><p></p><p>A Cleric can be of any alignment, unless it conflicts with their deity. Meaning. In a monotheistic setting, the Cleric might be restricted to certain alignments. Or else lack access to the higher level Cleric spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>With regard to the Druid class, the literal ‘trees’, ‘sun’ and ‘moon’ are figuratively called ‘deities’. In other words, the Druid engages nature veneration. The rules somewhat misuse the word ‘deity’. In the context of 1e rules, ‘deity’ seems to serve as a technical term that extends to include any kind of sacred concept. To be fair, the term ‘deity’ is more abstract, and can mean ‘godness’ rather than a ‘god’. The Druid lacks actual gods, but rules referring to Cleric spells sometimes conflictively apply to Druids too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The sales pitch notwithstanding, the 1e Deities and Demigods is an optional splatbook. Gygax appears to adopt polytheism for his own campaign setting, but stops short of imposing it on other DMs who already have their own established campaign settings. </p><p></p><p>Curiously, Gygax recommends polytheism because he uses it to police the alignment system. For me, neither the polytheism nor the policing of alignment are appealing. Alignment is only useful when it is descriptive, rather than prescriptive. Whenever D&D tries to coerce the alignment system, it becomes unpleasant, even inane. Additionally, polytheism is an unfun nonstarter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The D&D 1e Players Handbook empowered the DM to supply whatever setting the players would use, along with any kind of religious system appropriate to it, whether monotheistic, polytheistic, or other. By the time of the 3e Players Handbook, D&D becomes more dependent on official setting assumptions, with less room for DM responsibility. But even it has safety-valves. For example, the 3e SRD minimizes setting assumptions, and the Cleric class at least mentions how a Cleric might lack a deity. Thus the player at least gets a heads up, how the setting might be monotheistic, polytheistic, or philosophical. By the time of 5e, the Players Handbook freezes out DM choice of monotheism; polytheism is totalitarian, and there are insufficient safety valves.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 7157287, member: 58172"] @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6778044"]Ilbranteloth[/URL][/U][/B][/I], Your post suggests how formative D&D becomes more and more fixated on polytheism. Even so, its increase is ad hoc, conflictive, incomplete, and inconsistent. With regard to the 1e Cleric class, the mentions of ‘a deity or deities’ included the possibility of monotheistic campaign settings that only have one deity. A Cleric can be of any alignment, unless it conflicts with their deity. Meaning. In a monotheistic setting, the Cleric might be restricted to certain alignments. Or else lack access to the higher level Cleric spells. With regard to the Druid class, the literal ‘trees’, ‘sun’ and ‘moon’ are figuratively called ‘deities’. In other words, the Druid engages nature veneration. The rules somewhat misuse the word ‘deity’. In the context of 1e rules, ‘deity’ seems to serve as a technical term that extends to include any kind of sacred concept. To be fair, the term ‘deity’ is more abstract, and can mean ‘godness’ rather than a ‘god’. The Druid lacks actual gods, but rules referring to Cleric spells sometimes conflictively apply to Druids too. The sales pitch notwithstanding, the 1e Deities and Demigods is an optional splatbook. Gygax appears to adopt polytheism for his own campaign setting, but stops short of imposing it on other DMs who already have their own established campaign settings. Curiously, Gygax recommends polytheism because he uses it to police the alignment system. For me, neither the polytheism nor the policing of alignment are appealing. Alignment is only useful when it is descriptive, rather than prescriptive. Whenever D&D tries to coerce the alignment system, it becomes unpleasant, even inane. Additionally, polytheism is an unfun nonstarter. The D&D 1e Players Handbook empowered the DM to supply whatever setting the players would use, along with any kind of religious system appropriate to it, whether monotheistic, polytheistic, or other. By the time of the 3e Players Handbook, D&D becomes more dependent on official setting assumptions, with less room for DM responsibility. But even it has safety-valves. For example, the 3e SRD minimizes setting assumptions, and the Cleric class at least mentions how a Cleric might lack a deity. Thus the player at least gets a heads up, how the setting might be monotheistic, polytheistic, or philosophical. By the time of 5e, the Players Handbook freezes out DM choice of monotheism; polytheism is totalitarian, and there are insufficient safety valves. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Everybody's got to have a Patron deity. Where did it come from?
Top