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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6397275" data-attributes="member: 2011">Decided to do a bit of math on this system. I used the XP tables from the PHB.Making the assumption that PCs gain a level every 3 gaming sessions (i.e. one third level of XP of the higher level PCs per session), here is how long it takes for the first level PC to catch up to one level lower than the rest of the PCs. The columns are level, followed by session 1, session 2, session 3, etc.So at level 2 for the rest of the PCs, the first level PC is already one level lower. At level 3 for the rest of the PCs, the first level PC is one level lower after one gaming session. At level 6, the first level PC almost catches up to one level level lower in session 3, but then does not really do so until session 5 because while he is leveling, so are the other PCs.[code]2 Already there3 2.504 3.205 3.89&nbsp; 4.616 4.08&nbsp; 4.87 5.33&nbsp; 5.82&nbsp; 6.26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (7)...14 5.24&nbsp; 6.30&nbsp; 7.18&nbsp; 8.07&nbsp; 8.79&nbsp; 9.44&nbsp; 10.05&nbsp; 10.52&nbsp; 11.00&nbsp; 11.89&nbsp; 12.58&nbsp; 13.25&nbsp; 13.92&nbsp; 14.47&nbsp; 15.00&nbsp; 15.56&nbsp; 16.11&nbsp; 16.67&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (15)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (16)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (17)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (18)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (19)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (20)[/code]The numbers in parenthesis are the new level of the higher level PCs.At level 14, he never does get to one level lower. The best he does is level 16 when the other PCs reach level 20 (although he does make this milestone while they are still level 19).If PCs gain a level every six gaming sessions, then this table just stretches further to the right twice as far. The 1st level PC still makes level 16 after the 14th level PCs make level 19, etc.The other aspect of this is that the first level PC makes up a lot of levels after the first session, and then tends to make a level every session or two. If stretched out to a level every six gaming sessions, then it would typically be every 2 to 4 sessions that he makes a level compared to the once per 6 sessions of the other PCs.At lower levels, the PC does eventually spend time at the same level as the other PCs. For example, if he is only one level behind, then most of the time, he is the same level and only very rarely once he catches up is he one level behind (almost never for this example).At mid to high levels, the PC might never catch up to the same level and as illustrated by level 14, he never even catches up to one level behind. 3 levels behind is the best he basically does when he starts when the other PCs are level 14.Now the problem with this is the death spiral. If the DM throws area effect spells or Dragon breath weapons at the higher level PCs, it could easily be save or die for this guy (or even don't save and still die at some levels). If he dies and he does not get raised, then he is back again at 1st level, but even further behind than before.I just don't think that this is the way to treat a new player (or even a player that's been around for decades) at one's table. It's excessively harsh and punitive.Just because a DM has played this way for years and just because Gygax thought up the idea, does not necessarily make it a good idea.Frankly, it sucks to be the PC henchman for many real world months on end. If you enjoy doing this to your fellow players as a DM, all the more power to you. Personally, color me unimpressed with this gaming style.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6397275, member: 2011"] Decided to do a bit of math on this system. I used the XP tables from the PHB. Making the assumption that PCs gain a level every 3 gaming sessions (i.e. one third level of XP of the higher level PCs per session), here is how long it takes for the first level PC to catch up to one level lower than the rest of the PCs. The columns are level, followed by session 1, session 2, session 3, etc. So at level 2 for the rest of the PCs, the first level PC is already one level lower. At level 3 for the rest of the PCs, the first level PC is one level lower after one gaming session. At level 6, the first level PC almost catches up to one level level lower in session 3, but then does not really do so until session 5 because while he is leveling, so are the other PCs. [code] 2 Already there 3 2.50 4 3.20 5 3.89 4.61 6 4.08 4.87 5.33 5.82 6.26 (7) ... 14 5.24 6.30 7.18 8.07 8.79 9.44 10.05 10.52 11.00 11.89 12.58 13.25 13.92 14.47 15.00 15.56 16.11 16.67 (15) (16) (17) (18) (19) (20) [/code] The numbers in parenthesis are the new level of the higher level PCs. At level 14, he never does get to one level lower. The best he does is level 16 when the other PCs reach level 20 (although he does make this milestone while they are still level 19). If PCs gain a level every six gaming sessions, then this table just stretches further to the right twice as far. The 1st level PC still makes level 16 after the 14th level PCs make level 19, etc. The other aspect of this is that the first level PC makes up a lot of levels after the first session, and then tends to make a level every session or two. If stretched out to a level every six gaming sessions, then it would typically be every 2 to 4 sessions that he makes a level compared to the once per 6 sessions of the other PCs. At lower levels, the PC does eventually spend time at the same level as the other PCs. For example, if he is only one level behind, then most of the time, he is the same level and only very rarely once he catches up is he one level behind (almost never for this example). At mid to high levels, the PC might never catch up to the same level and as illustrated by level 14, he never even catches up to one level behind. 3 levels behind is the best he basically does when he starts when the other PCs are level 14. Now the problem with this is the death spiral. If the DM throws area effect spells or Dragon breath weapons at the higher level PCs, it could easily be save or die for this guy (or even don't save and still die at some levels). If he dies and he does not get raised, then he is back again at 1st level, but even further behind than before. I just don't think that this is the way to treat a new player (or even a player that's been around for decades) at one's table. It's excessively harsh and punitive. Just because a DM has played this way for years and just because Gygax thought up the idea, does not necessarily make it a good idea. Frankly, it sucks to be the PC henchman for many real world months on end. If you enjoy doing this to your fellow players as a DM, all the more power to you. Personally, color me unimpressed with this gaming style. [/QUOTE]

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