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Message: <blockquote data-quote="John Morrow" data-source="post: 2129881" data-attributes="member: 27012">As an advocate of explicitly defining that aspect of a creature, I think you can play it either way.  But I think a creature that is Evil by nature has a very different moral dynamic than a creature that is Evil by choice.  It basically moves the game out of the realm of action movies and fantasy epics, where the villains can be killed without pause because they are Evil, and into the realm of the modern justice system, where the bad guys have rights, deserve the presumption of innocence, should be taken prisoner rather that dispatched when wounded or knocked out, and always need to be treated humanely by good characters.  Playing a "judge, jury, and executioner" vigilante (which is what many RPG protagonists are) is a very different proposition when the Evil people might simply be raised wrong, are just misguided, or might be redeemed than it is when they are a dark blot on humanity that can never change.  Pick the tone you want and go for it.Well, there is also a train of thought that the angels that fell were destined to fall because of character flaws and remain fallen because they are unable to deal with those flaws and eliminate them.  That's not to say that the story of a demon that finds redemption can't be done and can't be interesting (in fact, there is an excellent campaign write-up on this site that deals with that very idea here <a href="http://enworld.org/forums/printthread.php?t=58227&page=1&pp=25" target="_blank">http://enworld.org/forums/printthread.php?t=58227&page=1&pp=25</a>).  It's simply pointing out that just because demons were not always fallen does not mean that their fall was not inevitable or was a matter of real choice.  Demons and devils are often meant to represent sins incarnate, not well rounded people.Of course it could also be a choice and simply a difficult choice for them to change -- so difficult that only a rare few do it.  Science Fiction authors Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle did a pretty good job of illustrating how an attachment to sins and character flaws can keep one from redemption in their treatment of Dante's Inferno.  In that point of view, those condemned to Hell keep themselves in Hell because they prefer to be there (the old "Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven" line from Milton's Paradise Lost is along the same lines).  That simply raises the question of why this demon was able to rise above it.That's up to you.  It does not violate the rules, which allow for even creatures with an Always alignment to be [edit]a different alignment[/edit].  You simply need to manage the implications of it.  Why would one demon "choose" to be better and not many others (as opposed to having their alignment magically altered)?  If demons can be reformed, then don't Good characters have an obligation to try to reform and redeem them?  This can all be very interesting but it's much more morally heavy than a game where the players can "See Demon.  Insert Holy Avenger.  Return it to Hell.  Do not think twice about it."  Instead, they have to "See Demon.  Try to Reform Demon.  Take risks to give Demon a chance to reform.  Return Demon to Hell only if absolutely necessary.  Wonder whether one could have done something differently to reform Demon." and so on. Role-playing seem to have an obsession with iconoclasm.  Good Demons?  Sure.  Good Vampires?  Sure.  Good Werewolves?  Sure.  Personally, I think that a large part of the symbolism of those creatures is that their powers come at a cost.  Yeah, Vampires are immortal, can turn into animals, and can control people's minds but the downside is that their souls are damned to Hell, they can never see the sun, and they must kill people to survive.  I think that giving players the power without the price loses something from the equation.It can.  Or you could try to have it both ways, as I am in my campaign, and declare some creatures Evil by nature and others Evil by choice.  Perhaps those undead, because they are animated by negative energy, are Evil by nature and werewolves, like a person with rabbies or dementia, is Evil by affliction, while your demons really are Evil by choice.  That's an option, too.  That's fine, too.  What you need to work out is what those limited circumstances are and why they are so rare.  What does it involve and why don't more demons and other evil creatures do it?  And if such a thing is available, are the forces of good working to make it a more common and available option to evil creatures and if not, why not?I think the campaign write-up that I provided a link to, above, should give you a good idea of how heavy this sort of thing can get.  It's not madness but it does have implications.  The question is whether you can either deal with those implications or effectively ignore them.</blockquote>

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