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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6216983" data-attributes="member: 4937">A common misunderstanding but, as an aside, no it is not.A character that falls on to a grenade to save his colleagues, or which carries a satchel charge up to a pillbox or tank and blows himself up, or which falls on his own sword just because his commander orders him to is obviously selfless, but it's not at all obvious that he's good.&nbsp;&nbsp; He might be - for a certain conception of what heroic is - be 'heroic', in the sense that his actions might be seen by his society to represent virtue and honorable behavior, but heroism in an evil cause isn't good - it's greater evil.&nbsp; If we think about it, we can probably think of many philosophical systems that encourage selflessness and subjugation of the self for the good of the group, but which don't encourage anything we normally associate with good - justice, mercy, benevolence, peacefulness, compassion, gentleness, purity, etc.&nbsp; Typically even to the extent that think those things are virtues at all, and not signs of weakness or insanity, they tend to think that they are behaviors that only should be directed toward the in group.Or in short, it's possible to be selflessly destructive - and we normally don't think of that is good even when, and maybe especially when, it's self-destructive.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6216983, member: 4937"] A common misunderstanding but, as an aside, no it is not. A character that falls on to a grenade to save his colleagues, or which carries a satchel charge up to a pillbox or tank and blows himself up, or which falls on his own sword just because his commander orders him to is obviously selfless, but it's not at all obvious that he's good. He might be - for a certain conception of what heroic is - be 'heroic', in the sense that his actions might be seen by his society to represent virtue and honorable behavior, but heroism in an evil cause isn't good - it's greater evil. If we think about it, we can probably think of many philosophical systems that encourage selflessness and subjugation of the self for the good of the group, but which don't encourage anything we normally associate with good - justice, mercy, benevolence, peacefulness, compassion, gentleness, purity, etc. Typically even to the extent that think those things are virtues at all, and not signs of weakness or insanity, they tend to think that they are behaviors that only should be directed toward the in group. Or in short, it's possible to be selflessly destructive - and we normally don't think of that is good even when, and maybe especially when, it's self-destructive. [/QUOTE]

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