Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Evil characters material not going to be in the PHB
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 6217376" data-attributes="member: 23484"><p>This would be enough for me, honestly. </p><p>* Magic has to be shown to be available for all (the spell list in the PhB should also be the spell list for evil wizards the players fight) </p><p>* If alignment is implemented (and I see no sense of its abandonment), then all choices must receive comparable space, even if it's brief.</p><p></p><p>The real test, in my view, will be Necromancy spells. Historically the game has been terrified of the word, and that has led to various unreconciled tensions in the test packs for Next:</p><p>* cure spells by common sense should be labeled as necromancy, but they aren't.</p><p>* some necromancy has implied or explicit judgmental connections with evil alignments (e.g. Animate Dead: "Animating the dead is not a good act, and only evil casters use this spell frequently").</p><p>* an implied Mage school choice is coming, which then excludes "being a Necromancer" from Clerics (who will instead be "clerics of Death"?) -- needless duplication.</p><p>* An early playtest (081312), back where then game had Specialties (i.e. planned feat chains… remember them?), there was the option of being a Necromancer. It was brilliant, in that it was independent of class or alignment: any LG spell caster could take it and have an animated servant as could a spell caster of any alignment. </p><p>* That same Specialty had, as its first-level ability, Aura of Souls, which (by my reading) was the worst-conceived fluff text for an ability yet presented (yes, worse than Damage on a Miss!): the Necromancer can "capture the fleeing life energy of a creature" and "destroy one of these spirits" in order to gain advantage, once. Literal soul-destroying, as a first-level ability. Sadly, rather than fix it, Necromancy has since been kept from the play tests completely.</p><p></p><p>All in all (and I'm just talking about 5e materials), it's a pretty schizophrenic attitude to Necromancy. I'm not just here to complain. Here is, specifically, what I'd like to see for Necromancy in Next.:</p><p></p><p>1. All healing spells (and their opposites, cause wounds, etc.) be labeled as Necromancy (and have opposite effects on the undead).</p><p>2. Judgmental language associated with using necromancy spells be removed from spell descriptions. This includes all flavour-text. Sure, Necromancers will tend to be evil, but the game shouldn't prevent players who want to be good from using these spells. (I don't want to see a return of "[evil] descriptors" and the like).</p><p>3. There be a feat that optimizes the use of necromancy, available and useful to both clerics and mages, but also Rangers (what better undead-hunter?) and even Paladins. i.e. Anyone dabbling with life-magic (including healing). For example: A feat that allowed +1 on any die rolls associated with Necromancy spells, or that treated any necromancy spell as if it was cast using a spell slot one higher. </p><p>4. I can already improvise a relevant background ("Death-cult-raised" or whatever) -- but something that gave relevant skills (Arcana, Insight, Survival?) would be cool. </p><p></p><p>Not everyone will want to be a Necromancer, of course, but being one should not commit you to an alignment or a class choice. All of this would support evil characters in play (and provide tools for the DM to introduce them), but also help provide awesome choices for neutral and good characters as well.</p><p></p><p>Finally, I've seen the concerns about space: implementing all of these suggestions would take no more than an extra column of space total, I figure.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kobold Stew, post: 6217376, member: 23484"] This would be enough for me, honestly. * Magic has to be shown to be available for all (the spell list in the PhB should also be the spell list for evil wizards the players fight) * If alignment is implemented (and I see no sense of its abandonment), then all choices must receive comparable space, even if it's brief. The real test, in my view, will be Necromancy spells. Historically the game has been terrified of the word, and that has led to various unreconciled tensions in the test packs for Next: * cure spells by common sense should be labeled as necromancy, but they aren't. * some necromancy has implied or explicit judgmental connections with evil alignments (e.g. Animate Dead: "Animating the dead is not a good act, and only evil casters use this spell frequently"). * an implied Mage school choice is coming, which then excludes "being a Necromancer" from Clerics (who will instead be "clerics of Death"?) -- needless duplication. * An early playtest (081312), back where then game had Specialties (i.e. planned feat chains… remember them?), there was the option of being a Necromancer. It was brilliant, in that it was independent of class or alignment: any LG spell caster could take it and have an animated servant as could a spell caster of any alignment. * That same Specialty had, as its first-level ability, Aura of Souls, which (by my reading) was the worst-conceived fluff text for an ability yet presented (yes, worse than Damage on a Miss!): the Necromancer can "capture the fleeing life energy of a creature" and "destroy one of these spirits" in order to gain advantage, once. Literal soul-destroying, as a first-level ability. Sadly, rather than fix it, Necromancy has since been kept from the play tests completely. All in all (and I'm just talking about 5e materials), it's a pretty schizophrenic attitude to Necromancy. I'm not just here to complain. Here is, specifically, what I'd like to see for Necromancy in Next.: 1. All healing spells (and their opposites, cause wounds, etc.) be labeled as Necromancy (and have opposite effects on the undead). 2. Judgmental language associated with using necromancy spells be removed from spell descriptions. This includes all flavour-text. Sure, Necromancers will tend to be evil, but the game shouldn't prevent players who want to be good from using these spells. (I don't want to see a return of "[evil] descriptors" and the like). 3. There be a feat that optimizes the use of necromancy, available and useful to both clerics and mages, but also Rangers (what better undead-hunter?) and even Paladins. i.e. Anyone dabbling with life-magic (including healing). For example: A feat that allowed +1 on any die rolls associated with Necromancy spells, or that treated any necromancy spell as if it was cast using a spell slot one higher. 4. I can already improvise a relevant background ("Death-cult-raised" or whatever) -- but something that gave relevant skills (Arcana, Insight, Survival?) would be cool. Not everyone will want to be a Necromancer, of course, but being one should not commit you to an alignment or a class choice. All of this would support evil characters in play (and provide tools for the DM to introduce them), but also help provide awesome choices for neutral and good characters as well. Finally, I've seen the concerns about space: implementing all of these suggestions would take no more than an extra column of space total, I figure. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Evil characters material not going to be in the PHB
Top