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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5008995" data-attributes="member: 8835">Well, I only mentioned Neutral in the second sentence.  Evil is a subset of Non-Good.  Neutral + Evil = Non Good.  We're not really disagreeing.  Much.I also appreciate celebrims lengthy post on his view of evil.  Let's all agree it's not a religion discussion.  Just a viewpoint.For D&D, I think I'm going to have to stick with the "your actions define/prove your alignment".  For the simplest reason that the GM can't read the players mind.  So IF Celebrim is right and thinking about murder is murder, the PCs can't be judged by that.  But they can be judged by their actions.  I also think that D&D morality is a bit looser.  In order to keep the system working, it has to be OK for Paladins to kill orcs.  Make that too slippery a slope and the combat class Paladin will too easily lose his status.Now, if I understand Celebrim's basic tenet, thinking of an evil act is the same as doing it.  Thus thinking of murdering someone is the same as murdering them.  Or at least both are BAD to different degrees.The problem I see with that philosophy is the pink elephant problem.  Per the story, a king was sold a philosopher's stone and told that it will work, so long as he doesn't think of pink elephants while using it.  The king naturally thought of pink elephants, so it never worked.If thinking of murdering someone is an evil act, all I have to do is have Celebrim read about the time he crept into Eric's Grandma's house and smothered her with a pillow while she slept.  He just now visualized it, and as an extreme interpretation of what he's saying is now tainted by evil.Our brains have so many random thoughts and impulses going on, that just as my company only claims ownership of my good ideas, and none of my bad ones, I can only claim responsibility for my actual actions, not of the possible actions that run through my head.The idea that somebody is evil because of their thoughts seems like a loaded deck.  Everybody has a wide range of ideas come into their head as they go through life.  This philosophy would instantly make them guilty.  That would play into the hands of somebody looking to make people feel bad about themselves, despite them never actually doing any harm.  Cults usually work on that angle by lowering the self esteem of the flock.  So do abusers.the strength of somebody's character is by their actions and how they choose to live their life.</blockquote>

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