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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9287304" data-attributes="member: 4937">Sure.&nbsp; Maybe.&nbsp; We can definitely see lots of the evidence of evil in humanity, though we'd probably quibble over the strongest evidence of that.&nbsp; But arguing over what is the best way to describe the real moral philosophy of the real world I think largely misses the point.&nbsp; The real problem is not so much whether you believe humans are inherently evil or not, but the fact that I'm baffled by people so absolutist in their beliefs and so terrified by anything that contradicts them that they can't even hold up alternatives as a mental toy to play with.&nbsp; What it reminds me of most are those people who refuse to play D&amp;D because it has fantasy magic in it and even fantasy magic is too much like what they consider to be evil to treat it as a topic of exploration.My major point to the original poster was, &quot;Given how evil and unheroic most humans are and in particular how much like murder hobos most player characters come off in their portrayal, what do you really have against a goblin hero anyway?&quot;&nbsp; So not really sure how you think that &quot;humans as evil&quot; represents a major contradiction of my position.&nbsp; And to the extent that this is an opening act of &quot;What's reality really like anyway?&quot;, that doesn't go anywhere I can explore as fully as I would like.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9287304, member: 4937"] Sure. Maybe. We can definitely see lots of the evidence of evil in humanity, though we'd probably quibble over the strongest evidence of that. But arguing over what is the best way to describe the real moral philosophy of the real world I think largely misses the point. The real problem is not so much whether you believe humans are inherently evil or not, but the fact that I'm baffled by people so absolutist in their beliefs and so terrified by anything that contradicts them that they can't even hold up alternatives as a mental toy to play with. What it reminds me of most are those people who refuse to play D&D because it has fantasy magic in it and even fantasy magic is too much like what they consider to be evil to treat it as a topic of exploration. My major point to the original poster was, "Given how evil and unheroic most humans are and in particular how much like murder hobos most player characters come off in their portrayal, what do you really have against a goblin hero anyway?" So not really sure how you think that "humans as evil" represents a major contradiction of my position. And to the extent that this is an opening act of "What's reality really like anyway?", that doesn't go anywhere I can explore as fully as I would like. [/QUOTE]

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