Evil PCs?

[KrazyHades]

How do you feel about allowing the players to play evil characters? I've done it before, but not often, and I've only done it when the entire party is evil/neutral. I want to hear other DMs' stories about evil parties, or about regular parties with 1+ evil characters in them. For example, have you ever had an encounter between party members as the "good guys" find a bad guy in their midst?

 

[lonesoldier]

In both cases (I've been a DM with Evil PCs and, the only Evil PC in a party with another DM) I've found that it greatly depends upon the maturity of the players. My players all think that Chaotic Evil == Insane, and personally I'm quite fond of Lawful Evil characters.

One of the main things in Evil games is that they will approach situations in a different manner. You have to remember that they won't blink an eye at murder, theft, arson, torture or worse when it serves their purposes. Heck, sometimes they'll just do it for fun!

Evil is really motivated by two things. Greed and Fear:

Cult summons demon lord to the Prime Material (Greed, they want that god to empower them)
Cult leader tells his minions to go kill the good PCs (Fear, the price of failure is rather steep and well-known)

Regarding backstabbing, it really depends on your players, but mine found great fun in forming little alliances, occasionally attempting to kill each other via followers and whatnot. On the other hand, you could simply have your BBEG state that killing each other is a no-no, or else someone is going to get killed.

One of my characters was found out to be evil (Freaking paladins... mumblemumble) but I used the whole "But I'm trying to redeem myself! Have you seen me do anything evil?" angle and made the group believe me (Nice high bluff check too).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I recently played Johnny Bones, a NE Ftr/Thief in a campaign...and there were few big problems.

The guy was a selfish, greedy bully and thug who happened to have the skillset the party needed- expert lockpick and stone-cold killer. While he was always on the lookout for #1, he was also smart enough not to "soil his own den"- so the PCs had almost nothing to fear from him. (Of course, there was also a healthy fear on HIS part that the real fighters in the party could take him out almost at will that helped keep him in line...)

The one exception was the party mage, whom he constantly bullied in a series of "accidents"- "Did I just push you through that firewall? Sorry! But it's obviously pretty safe- Let's go, everyone!" (nothing lethal, though) and/or "volunteered" for hazardous duty..."Let ______ be the bait!"

The flipside, of course, was that the party mage seldom aided JB with his spells directly...unless it was critical to the party mission. Turnabout IS fair play.

However, I can see that if the guy running the Wizard had been less mature, no amount of "Its Roleplay!" would have mollified him, and there could have been a LOT of friction.

 

[molonel]

In both cases (I've been a DM with Evil PCs and, the only Evil PC in a party with another DM) I've found that it greatly depends upon the maturity of the players. My players all think that Chaotic Evil == Insane, and personally I'm quite fond of Lawful Evil characters.

I agree. There are gaming groups where I would never consider playing an evil character, and I tend toward Lawful Evil character concepts when I play evil in a group because the evil samurai who still believes in family and order, the mafioso who is willing to bust a guy's kneecaps who doesn't pay his debts but goes home to his wife and children every knight, and the evil but honorable blackguard and other such characters are easier for me to fit into a group than a chaotic evil rapist and thug. (Other people might be able to make the latter work. I cannot.) Neutral evil is selfish and self-motivated. Chaotic evil, in my opinion, tends to require something more powerful to keep it in check by fear and force.

One of my longest-running campaigns ever was an evil campaign. We were still running it when Monte Cook's BoVD came out, and we incorporated that material into our game.

Even so, there were some elements that we, personally, refused to incorporate into the direct action of the game. At one point, we tortured a paladin of Heironius, but that action took place offstage. We also had to gather the material components for the spell to create Marrowcrushing weapons (I'm not going to describe them here). We left that action offstage, as well.

 

[delericho]

At the start of a new campaign, I require all PCs to be Good. After that, their alignments can drift if it is appropriate to the character and to the campaign. If the PC becomes Evil, so be it.

During a campaign, a new PC might be added to the group. Such a character can be Evil if and only if every character in the group is at least Neutral and at least one character is Evil.

Additionally, I should note that there is a wide range of 'Evil'. Some Evils are entirely compatible with characters of other alignments, while others most definately are not. The former are allowed; the latter are not. The difference should be obvious.

One of the most satisfying PCs in a campaign I ran was a Dwarven Cleric of their god of justice. This Cleric gradually became more concerned with law and with results than with any notion of Goodness over the course of the campaign. He thought nothing of resorting to torture, or even killing, if he deemed it appropriate and necessary. As such, he was clearly Evil. And yet, the character was dedicated towards a Good end, and stood in direct opposition to my BBEG. As such, he was entirely compatible with the goals of the group, was friends with that group, and caused absolutely no problems for me, the player, or the rest of the group. I would unhesitatingly allow such a character again.

 

[Darklone]

Yeah, maturity. You can have a nice evil char in a group that's very selfish... and knows exactly that he's dead as soon as he does something wrong. Works for years.

But if you have the kinda player "Uhm, yeah, wanna be evil... cuz it's soooo kewl, man. Really." Well. Waste him with a crossbow. The char.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

How do you feel about allowing the players to play evil characters? I've done it before, but not often, and I've only done it when the entire party is evil/neutral. I want to hear other DMs' stories about evil parties, or about regular parties with 1+ evil characters in them. For example, have you ever had an encounter between party members as the "good guys" find a bad guy in their midst?

In my experience as a DM having an all-evil party is fun as a one-shot or short lived campaign. Having one or a small minority of evil characters in a party is not fun at all. Consistently it ends up in one of two scenarios: The players of the Non-Evil characters have their characters 'turn a blind eye and a deaf ear' to the evil activities which to me utterly kills the suspension of disbelief. Or the characters end up turning on each other. I've watched two evil characters consipire and succeed in killing the paladin. The paladin player got so upset he quit the campaign. Frankly I don't blame him at all and blame myself for allowing it. And later when two other players killed the LG monk I quit the campaign. Yes, I the DM quit running the campaign. I couldn't control the immature players in my campaign but what's worse was at that time there were no other players to play with. My choice was GM with players I didn't like or to not GM at all. I chose the latter.

Two years later in a different city with a new set of friends I start to GM again. One of my conditions was that Evil PCs would not be allowed. Furthermore, when a PC turns Evil he becomes an NPC. The players accepted that and we had fun. Some years later in a new city with a new party, I laid down the same law and everyone agreed. Fun was had by all. In my most recent game I laid down the no Evil law and the players agreed. However in the course of the game one of the players kept running his CN character in Evil ways. I reminded him that his character would become an NPC once he became evil. But he kept on committing Evil acts and the other players would 'turn a blind eye and a deaf ear' regardless of their character's alignment. I quit the campaign. Life is too short to play with people who don't respect you or the game.

Bottom line is that we're all adults here. We've come together to play a game and have fun. There is an implicit assumption that we can trust each other to play the game by the rules and that the PCs can rely on each other to do their part for the team. There isn't time to roleplay out how a party comes together or even to reject a party member. Either play the game the way we the players like it to be played or go play in another campaign. No hard feelings. To each his own, et cetera.

In summary, my recommendation is do not allow Evil PCs unless running a one-shot with an all Evil party.

 

[Mark CMG]

evil is for villains and monsters - player's handbook

 

[Kurotowa]

IME it works fine as long they aren't cartoon evil. Cartoon evil is the behavior of any villain from a kid's cartoon who does evil things just because they're evil. No rape and murder because it's fun, no mad plans requiring the sacrifice of innocents, and at no time should they give cause for anyone to say "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Let's face it, most adventuring parties are greedy amoral bastards who wouldn't lift a finger without the promise of a reward. They regularly leave a trail of dead bodies behind them and think nothing to hauling off anything that isn't nailed down. As long as the evil PC has some loyalty to the group they should fit in fine. Even in a more upstanding party, an evil PC willing to toe the line (unless it's important) can go a long way. It's only the crazy cartoon evil PCs who constantly steal from the group and plot the assassination of their comrades who are a problem.

 

[Keith Robinson]

I've never allowed players to play evil characters in games I run. I've just seen it break down too many times in other games - and occasioanlly it can get quite nasty. So it's a house rule - no evil characters.