Evocation spells and DR

[Kerrick]

We came across an interesting question last night while gaming - energy bypasses DR, but what about Evocation spells that don't do energy damage? There aren't any non-energy attack spells in the PHB (I looked), but we've got several in our campaign, like nail storm (fires a block of nails at the target), Fallstaff's shuriken storm (a single shuriken turns into a cloud of them), or Krevik's spinning blades (shoots one blade/2 levels). Do spells like this bypass DR, or do they do normal damage? I'm leaning toward the latter, since they don't have any energy descriptors. So we came up with a variant rule - if you use a different type of material for the material component, like a cold iron nail for nail storm, an adamantine shuriken for Fallstaff's shuriken storm, or a piece of a silver blade for Krevik's spinning blades, etc., then the spell effect is also that type of material.

Since we just came up with it last night, it hasn't received any real playtesting, but we like it and I wanted to see what you guys thought of the idea. We could really use it, since we're going into an old dwarven mine/citadel that was overrun by demons a few hundred years ago, and we have no cold iron weapons in the party - we almost had two TPKs in a row from fighting a vrock and then two bodaks. If it weren't for the mage using alter weapon material (one of our own spells), we would have been toast.

 

[3d6]

SRD, Abilities and Conditions
Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

 

[The Souljourner]

Here's the thing - evocation spells ARE all energy. From the 3.5 SRD:

Evocation spells manipulate energy or tap an unseen source of power to produce a desired end.

The spells you're talking about sound a lot more like Conjuration.

For example, Acid Arrow is conjuration.

I think a good rule of thumb is that any spell which is affected by spell resistance should bypass DR and any spell which doesn't bypass DR shouldn't be affected by SR.

Thus you might say that the shooting nails spell actually conjures the nails, and thus they are affected by damage reduction, since they're effectively just non-magical spikes of metal shooting at the guy.

Still, as the guy above pointed out, in general, spells bypass DR.

-The Souljourner

 

[James McMurray]

Those spells definitely sound more like conjuration. But since they also sound like things that DR would affect, I'd keep your current house rule. It seems like it will work and add some flavor.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I would think that the general rule should be that if spell resistance applies, the damage is magic and DR should not apply. If the spell doesn't allow SR, it might allow DR.

Those spells definitely sound more like conjuration. But since they also sound like things that DR would affect, I'd keep your current house rule. It seems like it will work and add some flavor.

 

[drnuncheon]

We came across an interesting question last night while gaming - energy bypasses DR, but what about Evocation spells that don't do energy damage? There aren't any non-energy attack spells in the PHB (I looked)

Ice storm. 3d6 of the damage is bludgeoning (and thus really ought to be affected by DR, even though by the rules it is not).

J

 

[Xarls Taunzund]

There aren't any non-energy attack spells in the PHB (I looked)

As noted above, Ice Storm is an example of a damaging spell that doesn't do all energy damage. But you seem to be forgetting the mage's staple: Magic Missile.

 

[drnuncheon]

But you seem to be forgetting the mage's staple: Magic Missile.

Well, MM is "force" damage, which is distinct from physical damage since it does things like affect the Ethereal plane. There's other force spells too (blade barrier comes to mind, as does Mordenkainen's sword I think), but those I can at least see as bypassing DR as they are not physical nor energy but pure magical force.

J

 

[Kerrick]

The spells you're talking about sound a lot more like Conjuration.

For example, Acid Arrow is conjuration.

Yeah, you're probably right - they should be Conjuration. The description for Evocation in the PHB is awfully similar to that for Conjuration (Creation), though, so it's a tough call sometimes. I generally figure that any spell that uses energy like that is Evocation unless it achieves another effect that trumps it (Moluk's ice shield, for example, is Conjuration (Creation) [Ice]).

I guess using it for spell effects is out, then, but we might still use it for Conjuration (Creation) effects that create items - we have spells like fill the quiver, which creates ten nonmagical arrows, with the MC being an arrow. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Planesdragon]

We came across an interesting question last night while gaming - energy bypasses DR, but what about Evocation spells that don't do energy damage? There aren't any non-energy attack spells in the PHB (I looked), but we've got several in our campaign, like nail storm (fires a block of nails at the target), Fallstaff's shuriken storm (a single shuriken turns into a cloud of them), or Krevik's spinning blades (shoots one blade/2 levels). Do spells like this bypass DR, or do they do normal damage?

Cool spells.

Like others said, they probably aren't Evocation--and, IMO, they shouldn't be affected by SR, either. (DR, yes, SR no.)