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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8032024" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Oofta's character was using a weapon designed to be lethal (which Captain America's shield wasn't) against a child in response to a petty crime. I'd only consider the Captain America analogy vaguely comparable if Cap was known to kill regularly with his shield.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good and evil is one thing. Good and evil <em>as presented in D&D</em> is another. And in the good and evil I learned about as a kid the side that said "people are evil because of the colour of their skin" or "almost all people of a specific race are evil" were the ones wearing white sheets - and very definitely a flavour of evil. Even if we look at one of the worst societies to have existed in the 20th Century, Nazi Germany was as a society that was <em>very definitely</em> evil - but your average German of the time was neutral, trying to get on with their lives in the middle of a police state. The Nazis at the top and the SS were basically all evil but that doesn't mean everyone was.</p><p></p><p>And that's before you get into the utterly inane version of D&D alignment advocated for by Dragonlance (among others) which says that you must keep the balance between good and evil.</p><p></p><p>The original battle of Law vs Chaos was one based on Westerns in which you could draw a bright line. Those trying to "civilise" the wilderness were lawful. Those trying to push back against the encroaching "civilisation" were chaotic. And those trying to just live there and liked things the way it was were neutral. Or, to put things into explicit terms the army and the law coming from the 'Folks back East were lawful, the "Indians" were chaotic, and the cowboys an farmers were mostly neutral, just trying to live their best lives while being crushed from both sides, neither of which were good. I'd strongly argue that that framing bears little resemblance to the reality of the Old West - but it's one that makes thematic sense.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile good vs evil is an entirely different thematic clash and, unlike in the Old West you <em>can not</em> say that "because this person was either born there or looks like that they are likely to be good and because that person was either born there or looks like that they are likely to be evil" the way in the Old West if someone looked like a Native American they were likely to be on one side and if they looked as if they were from the city they were from another. This doesn't make one good and the other evil, but does make likely which way they will be pushing.</p><p></p><p>This doesn't, of course, say that a Maw Demon isn't <em>inimical</em> and needs to be stopped from eating everyone. Or that the Empire isn't evil with its willingness to blow up Alderaan. But no I did not miss my childhood. My childhood taught me that good was as good did, evil was as evil did, that almost no one was purely one or the other (which is partly why codes that lack forgiveness like the Paladin's or Jedi's are toxic) and that you couldn't judge which a person was by the colour of their skin even if that skin was green. I'm kinda worried if you missed these lessons from yours.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8032024, member: 87792"] Oofta's character was using a weapon designed to be lethal (which Captain America's shield wasn't) against a child in response to a petty crime. I'd only consider the Captain America analogy vaguely comparable if Cap was known to kill regularly with his shield. Good and evil is one thing. Good and evil [I]as presented in D&D[/I] is another. And in the good and evil I learned about as a kid the side that said "people are evil because of the colour of their skin" or "almost all people of a specific race are evil" were the ones wearing white sheets - and very definitely a flavour of evil. Even if we look at one of the worst societies to have existed in the 20th Century, Nazi Germany was as a society that was [I]very definitely[/I] evil - but your average German of the time was neutral, trying to get on with their lives in the middle of a police state. The Nazis at the top and the SS were basically all evil but that doesn't mean everyone was. And that's before you get into the utterly inane version of D&D alignment advocated for by Dragonlance (among others) which says that you must keep the balance between good and evil. The original battle of Law vs Chaos was one based on Westerns in which you could draw a bright line. Those trying to "civilise" the wilderness were lawful. Those trying to push back against the encroaching "civilisation" were chaotic. And those trying to just live there and liked things the way it was were neutral. Or, to put things into explicit terms the army and the law coming from the 'Folks back East were lawful, the "Indians" were chaotic, and the cowboys an farmers were mostly neutral, just trying to live their best lives while being crushed from both sides, neither of which were good. I'd strongly argue that that framing bears little resemblance to the reality of the Old West - but it's one that makes thematic sense. Meanwhile good vs evil is an entirely different thematic clash and, unlike in the Old West you [I]can not[/I] say that "because this person was either born there or looks like that they are likely to be good and because that person was either born there or looks like that they are likely to be evil" the way in the Old West if someone looked like a Native American they were likely to be on one side and if they looked as if they were from the city they were from another. This doesn't make one good and the other evil, but does make likely which way they will be pushing. This doesn't, of course, say that a Maw Demon isn't [I]inimical[/I] and needs to be stopped from eating everyone. Or that the Empire isn't evil with its willingness to blow up Alderaan. But no I did not miss my childhood. My childhood taught me that good was as good did, evil was as evil did, that almost no one was purely one or the other (which is partly why codes that lack forgiveness like the Paladin's or Jedi's are toxic) and that you couldn't judge which a person was by the colour of their skin even if that skin was green. I'm kinda worried if you missed these lessons from yours. [/QUOTE]
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