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Message: <blockquote data-quote="justanobody" data-source="post: 4544505" data-attributes="member: 70778">Yes because unless you are visiting Char Ops boards all the time to minmax your character, you are incompetent and can't grasp the rules or build a character. Because to play any other way is badwrongfun.Both of you skirt around trying to claim saying you would let fighters try to pick pockets, but in the end you would have them predetermined to fail.Ergo, you are saying fighters are not allowed to try.Runestar more so than yourself, because you claim a benefit of doubt in the fighter having a chance.Sounds like the time I was playing when my fighter was bored with the politics being discussed and as he has a tendency to do, went to sit in the corner for a nap, and the DM responded with a resounding NO YOU"RE NOT."why even bother", "No you can't"; sound like the same thing to me.Claiming the fighter has less options because of a stuck-up DM is not a fault of the system, and is nothing solved that makes 4th fighters better than earlier editions or gives them more options, because there will be crappy DMs out there for any edition, and players how cannot usae their own imagination to TRY to do something unless it is written down in black & white for them in the book.That has nothing to do with any edition, and is just a fact that poor players exist. So blame the players for sucking instead of the edition.</blockquote>