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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4544574" data-attributes="member: 22779">No, it really isn't.  It's simple math.Look, here's the rules for Sleight of Hand in 3e (note, pre 3e fighters could NEVER pick pockets at all, couldn't even try.)  That right there puts most fighters into negative territory for checks.  The ACP for most armors is going to wipe out any ranks you can manage to get INTO that skill.  But, let's ignore that for a second.Now, making the DC 20 check is possible, assuming you've spent the ranks, have a reasonable DEX and aren't wearing armor at the time (some fairly LARGE assumptions).  But, it's that second part, the opponent spots you based on your SoH check.  Let's see, cross class skill, so getting 10 ranks means you need to be 20th level.  Assume another +8 for a pretty amazing DEX score and you succeed most of the time (presuming you took your armor off first.)  So, at 20th level, you have a +18 SoH.  Any creature with spot as a class skill is TWICE as effective at seeing you.  +23 for class, probably another +5 for stats and no armor check penalty to contend with.  So, I've got +10 better than the fighter (pretty much minimum) on any contested roll.Yes, the fighter can try, but, he's going to fail an awful lot.  As in most of the time.  50% of the time he automatically fails.  The other 50% of the time, his chances are still pretty slim.So, yes, you are right, the fighter can try, but, he's going to fail almost every time.  This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of MATH.  This highlights one of the major issues with the 3e skill system.  If you don't max out that skill, your chances of success go from bad to worse.You can keep trying to pin this on bad DM'ing and bad players, but, it's really not.  It's math.  If your maximum chance of success is that bad, why even bother trying?  Why waste the resources.  Remember, my fighter above MAXED OUT his SoH chances.  He had to spend HALF of his skill points to get a piss poor chance of picking someone's pockets.</blockquote>

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