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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Runestar" data-source="post: 4544580" data-attributes="member: 72317">Granted, sleight of hand is technically a trained check, so you need at least 1/2 a rank in it to be able to even be entitled to make a check with it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />However, in game terms, your scenario would be represented by the dc being extremely low for some reason, or you getting all sorts of ad-hoc bonuses to your roll (maybe the guy was that unattentive, or the circumstances just were extremely favourable), rather than you "lucking out" somehow by rolling 3 natural 20s in a row or something.Ah, but I am not the one accusing anyone of not playing their game correctly. Rather, you are the one castigating me for not allowing the fighter with crappy ranks in sleight of hand to have a fair chance of success. Who is trying to interfere in whose game now? Nor do I recall ever insisting that everyone patronize the char-op boards at the gleemax forum first before they are worthy of playing dnd. Carry on with your personal attacks by all means. I think the more you try to misrepresent my position, the more of your ugly side you reveal, and the more the other members (myself included) get the opportunity to see you for what you truly are. Because both just end up with the same outcome.Lets say your fighter has a sleight of hand check of +5 (in reality, likely to be much lower because of a low dex and skill penalties from wearing heavy armour). But say the DC of a particular task is +30. You can try, but unless you can somehow end up rolling a result of 25 or greater on a 20-sided die, you are still going to fail anyways, regardless of what you roll. This isn't combat, where a natural 20 is a natural hit, and so everyone is entitled to a roll, even if the foe's AC exceeds their to-hit value by more than 20.In that case, why do you still insist on rolling? I see no need to have to coddle the fighter and arbitrarily lower the DC as a result just so he can have a chance of succeeding on a 19 or 20. The task has such a high DC exactly because I as a DM envision it to be an extremely challenging endeavor (and also because the DC has to be that high to sufficiently challenge the rogue who happened to focus on sleight of hand, in order to impress upon the party just how difficult the task really is). It is not going to mysteriously get lower just because someone in my party happens to stink at said task.You as a fighter should know what you are getting into when you invest in a cross-class skill, do not focus on its key stat (because you will likely pump str over dex), and wear armour (further lowering it). And you still expect me as a DM to accord you a decent chance of success? I honestly think you need an exercise in optimism, rather than optimzation.<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/angel.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":angel:" title="Angel    :angel:" data-shortname=":angel:" />You want to implement some new houserule or disregard an established rule which presumably makes fighters suck less (such as allowing a fighter with crappy ranks in sleight of hand a fair chance of stealing the crown jewels, when numerous master thieves before him have failed), go ahead by all means. It however, ultimately remains a houserule, and I seriously do not feel that it has a place in this discussion. Else, what is to stop me from saying that fighters do not suck because I can just give them the ability to use wish as an at-will SLA at 1st lv?I am so sick and tired of people attempting to argue that fighters do not suck because they can do X, where X is some custom rule which does not exist in the 3e dnd rules framework. This is partly the reason why I fled the gleemax forums. But it is sad to see that even Enworld was not spared this malaise...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /></blockquote>

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