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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nebulous" data-source="post: 4674129" data-attributes="member: 31465">I'm trying to envision how this encounter would look in 4e:PCs:1st level fighter2nd level elf (wizard)1st level dwarf (fighter)2nd level clericMonsters:Elven hobgoblin grunts, level 3 minions.One hobgoblin subcommander, level 3 soldier (from Dragon).The hobgoblins move into the room in pairs, and the PCs try to parley first.  Diplomacy checks fail.  Both sides roll initiative, PCs win.  Wizard and Cleric will certainly fall back behind the fighters.  An arrow and axe drop two minions immediately.10 hobgoblins left.The elf dropping sleep would, at best, drop 4 hobgoblins, but only if they're clumped up, and even then it might just slow them.  Plus they have Hobgoblin Resilence. Given the way the hobgoblins are staggered, the spellcaster might have to target the ones past the doorway. You can immediately see how much harder it is to abjudicate without minis for visual reference. But let's say 4 hobgoblins minions are hit and slowed, and fail their saves the 2nd round and fall unconscious.6 hobgoblins lef: 5 minions and the subcommander.  At this point, there is no morale check comparable in 4e, other than DM fiat.  Personally, i'd still have them all charge.At this point, the dwarf Fighter Fredrik is going to get swarmed (assuming he was out in the open). There is no way that a single hobgoblin can kill him, but for the sake of argument, let's say that he's hit by 5 minions in melee and a critical hit from the leader. 5 + 5 + 5 +5 +5 + 12 = 37 hp damage. In this scenario, let's say he had 33 hit points, so the dwarf fighter is down, but not dead until his blooded number. In fact, he's only at -4 right now. Concentrated attacks by the PCs kill two more minions (in the original scenario), but that still leaves 3 minions and the subcommander starting Round Three.The dwarf would start making Death Saving Throws, and a malicious DM would have the hogbolins attack the dying dwarf, although there's no reason they would do that with 3 viable targets breathing down their throats. Again, the DM has the opportunity to check for Morale, but there is little reason for the hobgoblins to logically give up the fight, especially when their leader is still alive and kicking.  I love having morale, but it is just as easy to make up on the fly without resorting to a die roll.So, at this point, the fight would continue and change considerably from how it ended up originally.  The only way for the fighter to die is very bad luck, lack of help from his allies, or continual attacks from the hobgoblins against his body.  In fact, the whole battle might very well be over.  Scorching Burst would have annihilated the minions, and a few encounter powers would take down the subcommander.</blockquote>

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