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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4674474" data-attributes="member: 4937">That's one of the problems I have with minions.&nbsp; We infer that because the group is outnumbered, that the majority of the opponents must be minions.&nbsp; But this assumption makes it very difficult if not impossible to communicate in game information without resorting to out of game language.In any previous edition, communicating 'You are outnumbered, this is probably not a good time to just draw a sword, scream, and leap' was a fairly trivial excercise.&nbsp; I love how in the example of play, the PC's immediately assess, &quot;Twelve hobgoblins is a pretty significant fight.&nbsp; Let's try a different tactic.&quot;&nbsp; That was standard play 'back in the day'.&nbsp; I don't completely miss 'treasure as XP' because it has big problems as well, but I really dislike how not having treasure as XP rewards 'we can't talk to the monster, because that's walking XP'.&nbsp; Anyway, back to my point, if we have 'minions' the world there has to be a way to mark them as minions, otherwise any gathering of creatures will be assumed to be primarily minions.&nbsp; If the party encounters a warband of 20 hobgoblins, and the point of the encounter is, 'You are outnumbered, this is probably not a good time to just draw a sword, scream, and leap', if you are used to minions you'll probably assess that 19-20 members of the group are minions and act accordingly.&nbsp; If they are in fact all level 3 soldiers, you are suddenly going to find yourself in over your head (and probably very surprised), when the DM's intention was, 'This is an encounter you are supposed to solve through stealth and evasion or some other alternate strategy than straight forward combat.'The other thing I notice about the example of play is just how much I miss combat turns with phases, no minatures, and the assumption of simultaneous action.&nbsp;&nbsp; That is to say, I love how you don't get to do your whole round worth of actions before anyone else moves.&nbsp; You are moving, and they are moving, at roughly the same time so you can't just step out of melee with something and do your own thing because that something can follow you and be right next to you the whole time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4674474, member: 4937"] That's one of the problems I have with minions. We infer that because the group is outnumbered, that the majority of the opponents must be minions. But this assumption makes it very difficult if not impossible to communicate in game information without resorting to out of game language. In any previous edition, communicating 'You are outnumbered, this is probably not a good time to just draw a sword, scream, and leap' was a fairly trivial excercise. I love how in the example of play, the PC's immediately assess, "Twelve hobgoblins is a pretty significant fight. Let's try a different tactic." That was standard play 'back in the day'. I don't completely miss 'treasure as XP' because it has big problems as well, but I really dislike how not having treasure as XP rewards 'we can't talk to the monster, because that's walking XP'. Anyway, back to my point, if we have 'minions' the world there has to be a way to mark them as minions, otherwise any gathering of creatures will be assumed to be primarily minions. If the party encounters a warband of 20 hobgoblins, and the point of the encounter is, 'You are outnumbered, this is probably not a good time to just draw a sword, scream, and leap', if you are used to minions you'll probably assess that 19-20 members of the group are minions and act accordingly. If they are in fact all level 3 soldiers, you are suddenly going to find yourself in over your head (and probably very surprised), when the DM's intention was, 'This is an encounter you are supposed to solve through stealth and evasion or some other alternate strategy than straight forward combat.' The other thing I notice about the example of play is just how much I miss combat turns with phases, no minatures, and the assumption of simultaneous action. That is to say, I love how you don't get to do your whole round worth of actions before anyone else moves. You are moving, and they are moving, at roughly the same time so you can't just step out of melee with something and do your own thing because that something can follow you and be right next to you the whole time. [/QUOTE]

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