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Message: <blockquote data-quote="redrick" data-source="post: 6739933" data-attributes="member: 6777696">It's an obvious consequence of tracking saves to proficiency bonus. I have a very hard time believing that the designers, in all their playtesting, left it in there by accident. It is most likely that the consequences are intentional.Saving throws in TSR D&D have a fairly different approach than in WoTC D&D. In OD&D/AD&D, they seem to work more like plot armor. As your character increases in level, all your saves increase, whereas many DCs do not. Some classes do better in some saves than others, but all characters are more likely to save than die against poison needle traps at high levels.In WoTC D&D, saving throws represent achilles's heels. As your character approaches nigh-invincible levels, the saving throws begin to represent their glaring weaknesses. Pretty hard to hit Jim with an axe, but you can tie him up with a Hold Person spell.It is worth noting that a player can choose to shore up weak saves as they level. Your fighter has had 7 ability score improvements by the 20th level. If playing with feats, just grabbing Resilient in Wisdom and maybe Dex will make this guy a lot hardier. 5 feats left over. I'm also not so sure of your assertion that "meaningful challenges" at 20th level are around DC 19. Characters will absolutely be facing CR20 monsters and higher, but they should also be facing groups of CR12 monsters, etc. That being said, I've never run a level 20 campaign and doubt I ever will, so I'm theory-crafting just as much as you are.</blockquote>

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