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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Markn" data-source="post: 2043892" data-attributes="member: 21827">Power CreepI define power creep as a player using existing options to maximize a PC ability or set of abilities that become grossly overpowered to a similar class at an equal level.  In my mind one of the best examples is the warmage class.  IMO, the class is far superior to a sorceror.  It may not be as utilitarian as the sorceror class but by taking one level of wizard/sorceror you are now able to use any magic item, any scroll or any item that replicates a spell on your wizard/sorceror list (even if you don't know that spell but as long as it is on your list) and thus removes almost all restrictions that the warmage class has.  Essentially, the class has an answer to every opponant that he fights and in great numbers as his selection is far greater than the sorceror.  Need area affect spell?  Check.   Need a fire spell against fire vulnerable spell?  Check.  Need target spell?  Check.  Need to do any of these abilities over and over and over and over and over until it dies?  Check!  Another example IMO is the spell Mass Fire Shield (Legion's Fire Shield).  The single version of the spell is personal only and therefore the intent of the spell is used by the wizard/sorceror as a protective spell so he doesn't get his arse knocked around by a creature that is a serious melee threat.  Now the mass version a) does not make sense since it takes a personal only spell and mekes it apply to everyone and b) the intent of the spell to protect a wizard now becomes an offensive spell when cast on the whole party as it effectively allows a fighter to deal damage while he is being hit and we all know that fighters go toe to toe with enemies and there enemies don't have much choice but to fight back.Furthermore, spell selection for certain classes IMO is beginning to become blurred.  There is a spell in the Complete Arcane that allows the warmage class to heal an ally with a ray (don't have access to the spell right now as I am at work).  Granted, this spell is not part of their initial list but it is an evocation spell and therefore he can choose it later on.  Doesn't make much sense to me... There is a spell from Complete Divine called Murderous Mist that Druids can cast.  The spell permanently blinds subjects (and may do more though I can't be sure) and the spell requires a reflex save instead of a fort save.  The reflex save is rather bizarre since it should be a fort save IMO.  In addition to this there is no cap (that I am aware of) that limits its power in the way that Cloudkill has.  If the creature has a poor save, no matter its hit dice or level it is really really hampered.  In fact, many necromancy spells from the PHB have caps.  See Circle of Death as an example.  From Races of Stone, the Goliath could be truly broken.  Unless I have misread it (and it was some time ago) they are able to use a weapon one size category larger than themselves.  If this is correct and they choose to become a Frenzied Beserker they will be capable of dealing horrendous amounts of damage (since their weapon is one size category larger) than any fighter from the PHB of any other race.  The drawbacks it gets on other areas will not cancel this massive damage that it is capable of doing.In a nutshell, the option books open up so many more options (which is a good thing when power level is comparable to the PHB) but con create some truly powerful classes.  There are many more spells that have no save and no SR than in the PHB and you gotta wonder why this is...  However, rather than debate a lot of this stuff I think the best way to challenge people reading these posts is to have them examine their own campaigns.  Do the wizards/druids/clerics or any subclass thereof always memorize certain spells from the splatbooks (or PHB for that matter)?  If so, why?  Does it offer more utility?  Does it deal more damage?  Does it have no save or SR?  If the answer is yes to any of these then the spell is not balanced with the PHB or to the level it is on.  Therefore, be default, the spell is more powerful for some reason.  Maybe not in terms of damage, but maybe more protective, more applications for the spell and could be used in a variety of ways and so on.  The same applies to fighters...Is there a weapon that is always chosen?  A feat? A PrC?  The point is, if something is always chosen there is reason for it.I remember one of the designers specifically stating that they were trying to balance spells so that one spell of a given level was not any more desirable than another and therefore would not necessarily be memorized every day by that class.  That, to me, is a tell tale sign that spell is balanced/ ability, feat, class, etc.I would like to hear about what spells, feats, etc outside the PHB that people see on a regular basis.  Those answers in and of itself should be the power creep you are looking for...</blockquote>

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