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<blockquote data-quote="Markn" data-source="post: 2045253" data-attributes="member: 21827">NavarStating that no class in the PHB can cast Ice Knife and therefore is not comparable IMO is incrorrect.&nbsp; That further enhances my position.&nbsp; The fact that a class outside the PHB has access to something else outside the PHB that a class inside the PHB doesn't get proves my point (at least in my mind <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />)How about a constructive exercise...Lets look at wizards spells.&nbsp; Go throught the PHB and mark say the top 5 spells for each of the first 5 levels.&nbsp; Now do the same using whatever splatebooks you want.&nbsp; Compare the top spells at each level.&nbsp; Look at damage, duration, versatility (is the spell effective against low level creatures, high level creatures, multiple creatures, fire creatures, ice creatures, etc), is there a saving throw allowed, SR?&nbsp; If you see spells as I do you should see that the top 5 from each level in the PHB will be weaker than the top 5 in the splatbooks.&nbsp; In fact, if you make a list and still do not agree with me then at least we have a starting point that we can each examine and say ' This is why I view the spell more powerful.&quot; At least we are not throwing examples at each other that are night and day to each other.&nbsp; Looking forward to your response.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Markn, post: 2045253, member: 21827"] [b]Navar[/b] Stating that no class in the PHB can cast Ice Knife and therefore is not comparable IMO is incrorrect. That further enhances my position. The fact that a class outside the PHB has access to something else outside the PHB that a class inside the PHB doesn't get proves my point (at least in my mind :)) How about a constructive exercise...Lets look at wizards spells. Go throught the PHB and mark say the top 5 spells for each of the first 5 levels. Now do the same using whatever splatebooks you want. Compare the top spells at each level. Look at damage, duration, versatility (is the spell effective against low level creatures, high level creatures, multiple creatures, fire creatures, ice creatures, etc), is there a saving throw allowed, SR? If you see spells as I do you should see that the top 5 from each level in the PHB will be weaker than the top 5 in the splatbooks. In fact, if you make a list and still do not agree with me then at least we have a starting point that we can each examine and say ' This is why I view the spell more powerful." At least we are not throwing examples at each other that are night and day to each other. Looking forward to your response. [/QUOTE]

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